Xojo web 2020r1 problems

There is one thing you have to see: I am not waiting for it to fullfill all my Dreams, I am wating for fullfilling what it promises. And that is a stable IDE and stable Applications as result. And for example not Javascript Errormessages from Xojo without any line of custom java script. This is what I am asking for. Not more. Not less.

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That’s what I mean. I have a “simple” wish. But there are reasons and explanations, why it isn’t “simple” to implement. Xojo is getting many “simple” wishes and is getting more and more complex itself, and this with a little team. Taking all that into consideration, I’m impressed that we are getting products, which are at least good enough for me. Not perfect, not fulfilling all my dreams, but still innovative and useful.

Fair enough. But in all fairness: recently I had to create a small Office-Add-On, basically a new ribbon for a customer calling a few external apps. So I installed Visual Studio and launched an assistant. the whole process was quite straightforward and it worked. But before I even startet adding my own code visual studio showed 48 warnings(!). Very rarely I have seen javascript libraries not throwing any errors (at least in some browsers).

There are other proprietary competitors that offer a similar variety of possibilities as Xojo (which I got to know and appreciate as RealBasic), also and especially in the area of fullstack development, including web development. There the Scottish tool “LiveCode” could be mentioned, or the French development “PureBasic/SpiderBasic”. Both offer among other things a very good interface development environment.

I agree and it’s good that we have choices. However none of these tools can for instance offer MS Office Integration. Xojo still can (okay, 32-bit only, and limited to Windows), but we still have customers requesting such tools. Is the integration perfect? Nope. Does is the job for me? Yes.

So all I’m trying to say: I believe it is a bit unfair expecting that Xojo can cover everything. Can they do better? Of course, you can improve everything. Am I overall happy? Yes, I am, and I’m impressed by the new release. Am I still missing things. Oh yes! Are my requirements those of others? Some might, some definitely not …

Are we still facing bugs. Oh yes! But are they real show stoppers? Not for me. Those days when we faced the flickering issue on Windows, or Realbasic not yet being Retina ready, those releases were real show stoppers and sucked. Those were “bugs” where it is utmost impossible to tell the customer the truth and I was forced to temporarily switch to other tools. A pure nightmare!

Currently, for 2-3 years now, I’m quite happy with the release strategy. I think it is the right approach that Xojo is not any longer in a rush. For sure Web 2.0 is not yet perfect but I think it is a real big and solid release and a good starting point. When will we see the next version? Well we don’t know, but I just don’t bother any longer. It is what it is and I learned how to explain that to the customers. For some features they have to wait, and I don’t know for how long (for instance customized heads in listbox, which we now finally have). If a customer wants to have it immediately, oh well than perhaps we have to change to a different tools. But almost every tool has limitations and downsides one way or the other.

That’s why I am congratulating the team for a great job on this release.

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When Xojo previewed things in lieu of XDC they showed a web based feedback that was supposed to launch when 2020R1 came out.

Not sure what’s happened to it?

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It is so that I have the Problem maybe the other way around: an error free app compiled without any error message and used in the correct mannor is blaming with javascript errormessages. Theese because of Bugs in the old 1.0 Web framework. It would not be any problem for me if I could get away from theese error message windows wich are generated by xojo but the error catching is not working correct in this case also: error is not catched by App alone, it will be catched also by this generated error message and the App is ended. This would be not a problem if it would come up all few month. But it comes up every day.

Web 2.0 would be a good starting point if it would be ready to use in normal functionality. But there is no Mouse control wich is needed by all of my Applications. And therefore is my question: if something is not ready, how can it be a Release as Major Release?

I am not angry about the fact that the Release is coming up late. I even would not be angry if Web 2.0 would come up in 2021 as major release with a long term Beta testing at this time. What is driving me nuts is another Problem: if I am going on to give out the Major Release of the next Generation and declare at the same Moment there is no Updating of the last Generation there is a big Gap for the customers. Especially the Javascript Error wich is coming up for every Web User.

Maybe, if you are only writing Desktop it will be no problem and you are happy und lucky with the last Update wich was helping for the newest MAC OS/X and that’s it. But. As a Developer wich is developing web based Apps wich are not simple Websites but really complex technical Apps I have a Problem witch would be for you the same if your Apps would run only from time to time and from time to time they are making an Error and ending. I do not know what this would mean to you but I know exactly what this means to me.

A web version of Feedback is still coming and it’s being developed in the new web framework.

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It has nothing to do with the Feedback App, I got it to run under really pressure that there is no other Way to xojo Developers. But that is not the Problem we are speaking about. My Panic is that there will not be any correction and patching of the Problems of 2019r3.x while there is a new major Version. That makes a big Hole im falling into cause the Problems with the Javascript Errormessages wich are generated by xojo are known since 2016. So in my oppinion it is the right way to develop a new framework and I appreciate the new framework when it is ready to use. But it is not until now. The Feedback App could be much less complex if it would be a direct running app without the need of installation. Whatever this is not helping for the Problem users are falling into: xojo is going on to bring up all the power for Web 2.0 without helping customers with Web 1.0. That is a real existing Problem for all customers like me wich are developing Web with graphical elements wich need Moude control. That’s what is not working and whats driving me nuts beside the fact that there is no webstyle anymore wich would be easy to implement. So the big difference of 2020r1 to 2019r3.1 is WEB 2.0. And if it is delivered with half functionality it IS NOT A MAIN RELEASE it is a BETA in my oppinion.

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Simply handle the UnhandledException Event in the App Object.

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Congratulations Lars Lehmann. But. There is an Error and theese errors are not errors and cannot be catched but xojo generates theese errormessages. Exactly this means: I have all errorcatchings active but it will not help in this cases because the errors cannot be catched under this circumstances. That’s what I am in panic about while there will not be a new Update of Web 1.0 and Web 2.0 is not ready.

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I think that might be the biggest issue with Xojo. Even though I’m using the tool for eternity I’m always learning new stuff. And meanwhile I know workarounds for bugs, which drove me crazy in the past :-). But this is quite a learning curve and makes it difficult for beginners and even experts can suffer, as they are not actively reviewing new options to code differently.

This is one of the only Bucks you cannot have a workaround except stopping to use xojo for Web development with graphical elements. Yes, you are right, Workarounds I needed also. We have tons of it for Database, graphics on Desktop, Opengl and so on. We wrote in C, C++ and Java so we could build up what we wanted. But in this case there is no rescue possible cause it comes up from inside of xojo without any possibility of control about it.

Thorsten, do you have any chance to share an extract of the code with the community and to seek for help? I found the forum very helpful when it comes to such kind of issues, where you feel to be complete losing the ground. I recently could not find a solution on a rather beginner’s question. I am running a handful of web 1 apps. I faced many issues, but never the kind of prob you are describing here.

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If you look at the work of @Anthony_Cyphers with the https://graffitisuite.com your problem sounds as such, that he could never have released such a complex solution. I encourage you to use the power of this community, I’m confident that someone might find an idea to help you.

Jeannot. We are doing graphical Stuffs in Canvas. For example: drawing lines from Mouse Position to Mouse Position. Or Marking Points from Mouse Position to Mouse Position. This makes it impossible to rewrite the Apps with 2020r1. The Javascript Errormessage makes it impossible to stay on the old release. It is really a not good Situation for a Programmer. I know normaly alsways a Workaround. But now…there is no chance for a workaround until 2020r2.0 or 3.0

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With Internet Users such messages are not the big Problem. With medical Apps for medical devices it is not allowed that they are coming up. So. There is no chance. I am on the way loosing really big pile of money while there are theese errors.

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gotcha, and yes that’s my learning as well. The more you push the possibilities of Xojo to an extreme, the more likely it will be to face issues, and sometimes challenges no one has yet seen. That’s why I’m suggesting that you reach out the whole forum in a separate thread, describing exactly your Web 1.0 issue. Perhaps there are workarounds to get it fixed.

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Understood! But are you aware that Xojo is offering licenses where you can get special support directly from them. I never had to test this service, but I’m sure they will come back to you, if you address this particular issue. If I would face any issue which would bring my own business at risk, I would definitely reach out to them and explain the situation.

That was descriubed by many users in this forum starting 2016 and it is an old bug witch was never corrected since this times. What do you think will be happened if I will write about? Ah. Yes. Nothing, nada, niente. Why: because this error is deep inside of web 1.0 API and to correct it you need a new API. That’s why they startet 2.0. And leave us alone with the old errors of 1.0. I will do a workaround in another way. I beleave I have to look for another Plattform to develop software with. B4x, embarcaredo or Netbeans. But not xojo. Well. when promising web development capability there has to be at least a bit of stable release. And that we do not have in case of the jscript errormessages. Support told Server is to slow for Users. I can tell you: my users are sitting directly beside the Server with never more than 5 users. So what? Why timing is not working correctly? This Problem drives me crazy, you are right.

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