I think this is the main problem, lots of users kepp paying even if Xojo screw them time after time
Dont bother, the ignore most of those feedback anyway
There is one already; Only Xojo knows what is best for all the users and no one will come to change their minds about the sighted decisions like renaming keywords just for the looks.
I have 2019r2.1, until now, more reasons to NOT waste money on new releases. I will wait a couple of releases to decide if is worth to re learn the anguaje with API2 or learn another tool
Well, all the nitty-gritty Java updates/patches might drive you crazy as well. Been there, done that.
As a Java hater, I will avoid to talk about using it.
We are doing it for another customers as well and no: it is not driving me nuts. The Programming is really slower cause of the language and it costs lots of time. But it is at the end working without errormessages where xojo says cannot do anything against…Yes, I AM there and it is not making half of the stress. BUT we have a customer project wich is really important and NOBODY can bring it to run cause xojo is not working out it’s biggest web errors. If we would speak about the concept: really good idea for web application development. But the realization? No, Sorry, not.
I understand the frustration of many. I’m a Xojo customer for many years, and the constant delays are sometimes frustrating, but it is what it is. My lessons learned so far: I am trying to stay with the standard functionality as much as I can and I do think twice when to use a plugin and when not.
Secondly I’m aware that Xojo can not build “everything”, at least not “easily”, BUT it has many, many possibilities. Try building a Windows Service with anything different than Xojo and you will get really frustrated.
It is indeed a pain that currently (!) there is some functionality from Web 1.0 missing. On the other hand Web 1.0 was everything but a sole nightmare. If you are trying to easily replace Xojo Web with something else, you will for sure have to learn multiple technologies anyway. Without JS, CSS, PHP or python or R and SQL you won’t end up with something reasonable. Ok, you can try Java, good luck with that one, I hate it ;-).
Furthermore if you are seriously into web development, you will use a framework too. With Xojo we have now bootstrap, I’m fine with that.
Web 2.0 is far to be perfect, but I like the approach and I really respect the complete rewrite. Already out-of-the-box one can achieve very good apps, and they are fast. With some bootstrap and CSS fine-tuning you can even achieve more.
I mean we are all developers, aren’t we? I think most of us faced those situations, when we had to completely rewrite an app. Many of us did it the first time we used Xojo / Realbasic, as we replaced Visual Basic …
I’m convinced that we will see many enhancements in the next releases but the current release is already usable for many tasks. I don’t think Xojo will ever replace native programming at 100 percent, but for those who need to develop different tools in different platforms, there is nothing comparable on the market.
okay, you can speak about let’s say: something language in somehow IDE. Better? I can understand the JAVA hating. But when something is not really working it is not to use for professional purposes. And that is at the moement the Peace of Work. Should be a Xojo 2022r1 and the 2019r4 should bring the rest
I builded around 200 Windows Services with Java and C++, Linux and MAC OS Services as well. So where is the problem to build a service? And yes, I see it in a different wise: they have to wake up to fullfill what they are promising.
What for me is the Problem: MAIN FUNCTIONALITY is gone. So I can not switch to next xojo Version. But the 2019 is really buggy and you can not really work with it.
Yes, if I write with Java I have to deal with CSS and all the Stuff. And yes I hate it too. But do I have another chance? It is impossible to work with xojo under this conditions. And I have to pay every year 700 Bucks for what? For nothing? It is what it is: a peace of Alpha Software wich is likely the same what was for testing before a couple of month. So, if they are not even writing it ready to the end and if they are not getting ready with their Software what is it? Moneymaking for not doing the Job? My customers awaiting a running Software and they want to be able to work with it. In medical environment it is really a hard peace. And Xojo is wunning from Bug to Bug.
I did use xojo for it, no interest in using Java, C++, can you do more with native C++. Sure. Is it easier? It depends. Definitely not for me. But yes, it can very well be that my business case is not yours and that you have to move on. On a side note, I’m a physician and happy with Xojo ;-).
Jeannot you are right. But with the xojo 2020r1 the development of 2019 is stopped. And this means: there will not be a new release with error correction. They do only developing of 2020. But if this process is going on like 2019 we will get a working solution when? 2030?
Second: yes I can do same stuff with Xojo or Java or C++ except Web like Xojo Web programming. And yeah it is rerally a hard cut to change with a not complete workling framework. It is like you want to drive somewhere. But the street is on all edges under construction. Nobody can stand this.
Fair point, and yes frustrating sometimes. I believe Xojo is constantly facing similar issues themselves - for instance when Apple or Microsoft is changing something, often out-of-the-blue. And I think we all have seen frameworks and other programming tools dying or changing … So I gave up many years ago in waiting for the next release to fulfill all my requirements. As long, as I haven’t seen the new feature it doesn’t exist for me and I’m neither promising anything to my customers not even planning any projects, if I have not tested the possibilities of a new release. No offense here, I’m only sharing my thoughts. But perhaps you should have a chat with Xojo, my experience is that they do listen, which doesn’t mean they are implementing instantly what someone is requesting. I do behave the same way with my customers ;-).
completely agree on this.
They actually dont do this “out of the blue” very often
They give developers LOTS of warning at WWDC and Build that “this is coming and …”
Some things they have been saying for years
I believed, XOJO should continue supporting upgrades for 2019 up to release xxx, then create a complete new brand name for xojo WEB 2.0.
This way, our xojo web app will becomes our legacy system, and we have chance to develop new software under the hood of XOJO WEB 2.0.
That’s true, but when they are doing it (Apple Silicone for instance) it comes at relative short notice and yes I mainly tried to be nice ;-). But Web 2.0 is using obviously some open source stuff in the background. Anything changing there, or in bootstrap and “out-of-the-blue” they have to react … and as well all know, the team is rather small. Hence I think it quite impressive that the are getting things done, though it is sometimes very slow to satisfy everyone. Since day one as a customer I’m missing watchpoints in the debugger for instance
yes, sound reasonable. But maintaining 2 parallel releases is usually the source for even bigger issues. And if you will integrate both for the time being, some people might never move to Web 2.0 … difficult decisions. I’m not saying that I’m happy either, but I told my customers: times are changing. We can only make small changes on legacy stuff, for new ideas we will use Web 2.0. and Web 2.0 is completely different (look and feel) and we can not yet implement everything with 2.0. Period. Not very customer friendly, but I have no other choice.
Well, for me, there are lots of advantages working to Web 2.0 for the New project instead of using Web 1.0. One of my compelling reason is I wanted to see may web app to be working responsive design.
this will be my reason why I will left web 1.0 as being my legacy platform.
Please implore Intel to make it possible to have more than 8 hardware watch points
As the difference between a hardware watch point and one done in software is tens of thousands of times different (ie/ nearly instantaneous and so sluggish you’d hate using it)
In the mean time any time I want to watch what changes a variable I use a computed property
I can then control whatever I want and log changes stack state etc
Its definitely not perfect but its better than nothing at all
True, but the problem is that thigs are getting worse each release
Now we have to choose beetween a buggy web 1.0 that was abandoned long time ago and no is dead or a web 2.0 that is in an alpha state