Yes Melvyn I have to agree on that. I struggle to see what major benefits Xojo has offered other than the shiny new IDE and as you say Cocoa release. Perhaps as I am not yet at release stage with my software I can cope with the issues. I guess if you are full time developers and at release stage then it is a headache you can do without.
Well, Cocoa is big and eventually I will need to move. But as of now, the headaches are outweighing the benefits. I think it is a great start for a version 1.0 release, but I still have work to do (a lot of work the second half of this year), and I can’t take the performance hit that the new IDE is causing me. And currently Xojo will not build my main project the same as RS does (a couple of odd UI anomalies that I can’t get to the bottom of), so I have some project reasons for not being able to move as well.
Basically sticking with RS2012 for now, as much as I can that is. Naturally I’m spending some time testing and working on Web Custom Controls in Xojo, and I’ve been doing some contract work in Xojo because that’s what one client is using.
Things that have to change before I will switch 100%?
- Tab lock fix.
- New tabs need to open fully expanded, or there need to be menu commands and shortcuts to expand/collapse all, or both. Why am I wasting time clicking tiny triangles? (In all fairness this was a RS issue as well.)
- Double-click for new tab always honored.
- Double-click for new tab needs to go to the existing tab if the item is already open.
- I’m tempted to say that the inspector for code (method/property/constant/etc) needs to return to center top. Trying to type or review constants and parameters in a narrow inspector, aggravated by having field labels next to instead of above the fields, is just painful.
- Some of the focus and tabbing issues need to be fixed. I’m constantly typing and expecting to see text only to hear beeps or see my text in the wrong spot.
- Bug fixes.
Things I would like to see changed, but they won’t necessarily prevent me from using Xojo full time?
- Give us back the old Inspector, at least as an option.
- I doubt they will ever give us back the old library/window/inspector arrangement because of the whole navigator concept. But at least stack the library/inspector on the right thereby eliminating the constant shortcut typing to swap between them while designing a window.
- Customizable toolbar.
- Put icons back in the tabs. Sounds silly but I spend more time looking over my tabs now.
- Performance improvements, particularly when it comes to the debugger.
- Tighten up the UI so Xojo is usable on a MacBook.
- Use radio buttons in some spots rather then popups (scope; find options). If you have a fixed set and plenty of space, popups are never preferred.
I say this every time I complain: it seems that Xojo has a solid foundation under the hood, and it actually has fewer bugs for r1 then I would have expected. I hate to sound like I’m ripping on it. Most of it is good. But the things that are bad or annoying are real sticking points for some of us.
Is there a bug report or a forum post explaining what you mean by “will not build the same”?
That was more or less the exact quote I was thinking as I was on sat on a plane across the Atlantic a few weeks ago on my Win 8 laptop at 1366x768 resolution. I could not believe the real-estate wasted/available. On my 22" at home Mac and Windows, totally usable.
I now prefer the new IDE, although if I need the laptop for work, I do revert to 2012r2.1 but that has been rare and next time I head across the pond, I’ll have kids to handle so no laptop time 
There are a few annoyances, but I know these will get better as time moves on. That said, I don’t spend 100% of my day on Xojo so probably a different perspective.
I discussed it with one of the engineers during the beta, couldn’t come up with anything. I need to strip out a project and send it in, just haven’t had time. Basically, I have a couple of busy screens (StyleGrids, Window Splitters, ListBoxes, Canvases, etc…) on a screen that you get to via a PagePanel. In 2012r2.1 it all shows at once, instaneously, very smooth. In Xojo, when you go to that same screen, the StyleGrids pop up about a half second before everything else. Exact same project except for a folderitem path issue that you guys fixed a bug in. But other than that, the same project builds and runs under 2012r2.1 and Xojo. But something is not the same as you see this UI issue.
Could be a StyleGrid issue, although it works perfectly in 2012r2.1. Just haven’t had time to pursue it.
You won’t catch me going back. The improvements to debugging Windows Services outweigh all the other “issues” as far as I’m concerned. Of course not dealing with Cocoa & in general building for the Windows environment means I miss most of those “issues”.
“In for a penny, in for a pound” I say, wot, snort. RS is a zipped file for emergency, but it is all Xojo for me. I would need to ‘unlearn’ my brain to go back now.
I got used to the screen-real estate. I even got used to do Cmd-F instead of Cmd-Shift-F. But the navigation drives me nuts. Also the missing copy-and-paste of methods and properties makes me gnash my teeth.
One of my windows was completely uneditable in Xojo and had the radio buttons not enabled anymore. After having redone the window in Xojo I don’t want to go back to RS2011r4 anymore.
Bad humor coming: how do you know that someone worked a lot with Xojo? You get a Feedback issues with consecutive numbers.
Regards
Beatrix Willius
[quote=16606:@Beatrix Willius]I got used to the screen-real estate. I even got used to do Cmd-F instead of Cmd-Shift-F. But the navigation drives me nuts. Also the missing copy-and-paste of methods and properties makes me gnash my teeth.
[/quote]
Maybe I’ve just gotten used to it but you can do this.
Select them in the navigator (so they’re blue) - select COPY and then make sure whatever you’re pasting into is also highlighted and hit paste.
In fact you should be able to copy disjoint selections like this.
I just moved my long standing client to 2011R3 because PowerPC builds are still needed. All of my others are on 2012.
I cracked open Xojo so I could update Elastic Window and remove any compiler warnings when analyzing the code. when I noticed I had a number of methods highlighted in red. I looked & looked for the errors, relaunched Xojo, changed the code, re-analyzed, still red. I had to skim through 3 (of the 5?) “books” before I found that the IDE was showing me the scope and that those weren’t warnings after all. Whoever thought that was a good design, I don’t know. I did find where to change the scope to display as an icon. Geesh, don’t highlight my methods in red like there’s something wrong.
Perception is everything, I guess. I happen to really appreciate that feature.
maybe should show as yellow/amber instead like the traffic light
Red is private, yellow is protected, no highlight is public.
I don’t mind the concept of coloring it, but red typically means error and yellow means warning to me. That’s why I switched to the icon view.
Me neither on an 11" MacBook Air. Of course I have it attached to a 27" display though…
On Windows 8 Xojo is just terrible. Will wait for the next release.
On Windows 7, it is like working in 640x480 resolution on a 17" Monitor. Absolutely hate it. Im sticking with 2012
It looks like LOGO for the COCO 3
I’m getting used to the new IDE and am doing most of my work in it now.
On a 27" iMac it’s not so bad–just a few quirks/bugs (have to right-click twice to get Copy command for selected code, etc.), but I can work with it. I’m not so happy with it when I have to switch to my laptop though, as I don’t have as much space for my project.
On my Windows 7 PC it’s to slow. To slow to try and get any real work done. On my Windows 8 laptop it’s a little faster, but still to slow.
[quote=16890:@Brent Eamer]On Windows 7, it is like working in 640x480 resolution on a 17" Monitor. Absolutely hate it. Im sticking with 2012
It looks like LOGO for the COCO 3[/quote]
As someone who’s used this I can, without any doubt, say that in its best dreams LOGO couldn’t dream to look this good.
Having said this, surely not all display sizes look like 640x480. I use Xojo in a 15" laptop and it’s workable (doesn’t look more oversized than what XP has always seemed to me, for example).