Remember: fall start around September 20 and ends around December 20 (2014).
THE ANNOUNCED DATE IS NOT September 21st 2014.
When you wan something, usually you take the first date to come, not the possible interval date.
Jury,
You should be angry on Yourself. How can You be so stupid that You jeopardy Your own business?
Look around You, there exist plenty of tools already in use for iOS. A small micro company like Xojo Inc will never be the first vendor that ships first. They will be the last to do it.
By now You should also be aware of that this is the wrong forum to criticize Xojo Inc. It’s one thing if You trash talk Microsoft but start a thread and ask why the f*** is the simplest way of getting lot of new “friends”.
dennis, alias simpson,I’m here to asking for a feature announced by two years.
I did not call any stupid, but you yes.
and having regard to yours tones, you do not receive further response from me.
Let’s all play nice and continue to have a friendly discussion.
Trash talk is unelegant and unfair. Doing it to Microsoft does not make it right, even if the mammoth needs no help to defend itself.
Talking about Microsoft, I attend regularly the Windows Store applications development forum over Msdn. They have a team of engineers who spend a great deal of time answering questions. And there are many questions. But very seldom do they get interesting exchanges amongst participants. Nice forum, but no life other than the answers to technical questions.
Tough love is OK. I have made RealBasic my favorite development tool quite a while ago, and today rather use Xojo than anything else. But positive criticism is, in my humble opinion, a valuable feedback. And often, the more love there is, the more passion. And with passion comes some measure of drama.
I find Xojo, company and product, worth an emotional attachment that few other companies elicit. Maybe Apple ?
Now the iOS topic has generated time and again threads where tempers tend to get heated. I find that somewhat refreshing. It shows how much a lot of us have invested in the language.
Um, wrong. The final release is this fall. The public beta has been out for a while now.
Sloppy writing on my part .
At WWDC they announced 10.10 - Yosemite.
They did announce the public beta at the show.
Sometime after that the public beta came out - but not at the show.
It was an illustration of Apple saying “Hey here’s this new cool thing but you can’t have it til some time later”
Almost everything in the Tues show was “available at some later date”.
Every company does it.
But Apple waits until they are so close its nearly impossible for them to miss the stated time (since they usually just say “the fall” unless its so darned close they can tell you a specific date which they did a couple times Tues)
Maybe we should return to that and say nothing until the day before we release it publicly.
It certainly would save a lot of the public angst like this thread.
[quote=128534:@Norman Palardy]Maybe we should return to that and say nothing until the day before we release it publicly.
It certainly would save a lot of the public angst like this thread.[/quote]
It would not only save a lot of public angst, but it would mostly likely save a lot of internal, private angst within Xojo also. If you already know this to be true, why haven’t you gone back to that mode of operation? Or have you already done it and just not announced it publicly? 
Let’s be honest, there’s another reason they talk about future plans - I’m not saying this the only reason they do it, but it obviously keep some users from switching to another environment, which keeps users interested and keeps the money coming in.
When Xojo Inc talk about topics such as iOS and 64-Bit, I have always taken any stated time estimates with a large grain of salt. I’m more interested in knowing where they are heading generally so that I can make long term plans. Anyone basing business decisions on rough estimates of other companies is doing their own business a disservice.
Imagine if Xojo Inc had never mentioned iOS or 64-bit or LLVM. You can bet that attendance at XDC, for one, would plummet. The community would assume the company had no future goals. I’m glad that isn’t the case.
[quote=128534:@Norman Palardy]Maybe we should return to that and say nothing until the day before we release it publicly.
It certainly would save a lot of the public angst like this thread.[/quote]
Add to it the 64 bits thread that just started
[quote=128560:@Gavin Smith]Let’s be honest, there’s another reason they talk about future plans - I’m not saying this the only reason they do it, but it obviously keep some users from switching to another environment, which keeps users interested and keeps the money coming in.
[/quote]
If you want to be honest, then you have to answer which is worse, repeatedly talking about “futures” and not delivering or not discussing futures at all? When you repeatedly don’t deliver, for whatever reason, you lose credibility. It’s like the boy who cried wolf too many times.
If Xojo is purposefully leaking information and dates knowing that there is no way that they will hit them, and that type of behavior is persuading users to keep renewing and/or not switching to another environment, then shame on Xojo for continuing such a practice and shame on those users for falling for it after so many times. I can only speak for myself, but the sum of those disappointments and unfulfilled expectations over the years are exactly what lead me to to use other IDE’s as my primary tool. “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”
We talk about future plans with the best information we have at the time and what our expectations of releases are / will include.
But, its incomplete information and we have varying degrees of transparency about Apple, MS, or Linux developers plans for the future and their dates & timelines. And those can and do conspire to force us to react in one way or another. That sometimes induces delays as our plans have to change to match whatever it is they’ve changed/required.
But since people are upset when we say “We expect to .” and maybe have to delay because of such changes the ONLY safe answer was to say nothing. But that too brings anger about not knowing future plans etc.
Damned if we do. Damned if we don’t.
echo… echo… echo…
You will never have 100% people satisfied. But one thing is for sure : announcing dates do raise expectations, including irrational ones like that of the OP.
Refraining from announcing dates before you are reasonably certain the product will be ready is probably the best course of action.
I think the proper course of action in this case is having a roadmap of what things are being implemented and planned (without a timeline) and then as things get closer to their release (maybe beta) - announce their expected release date.
Or just plain damned 
Stuff to be released when its ready
There - done - forever 
The problem with a “road map” is that nearly everyone wants to know
- what order hints are being implemented
- WHEN (invariably this one comes up - its the genesis of this thread & the one about 64 bit)
so a road map just moves expectations to a different level
Hi Norman,
I personally am glad that Xojo has indicated the team is working on iOS development. I am unlikely to engage with Objective C, but the chance to do iOS with Xojo is welcome to me. I am OK with waiting till the product is ready.
Regards,
Tony Barry
the past returns with the words “it is ready when its ready”…
if I answered in this way to my clients i would find myself without a job: D
ok… “it is ready when its ready” and i renew my license only when “its ready when it is ready” became the present.
Hi Jury,
For me, I am glad to know iOS is coming. I am OK with waiting because I am not able to make it happen any sooner by any action I may do.
You may be different. You may be able to make your desired outcome happen sooner by making suggestions that Xojo will be without money unless they provide you with iOS support.
On the other hand, what you do may not affect the outcome at all. In that case, your energy you spend in making suggestions is wasted.
Regards,
Tony Barry
[quote=128841:@Jury Buono]the past returns with the words “it is ready when its ready”…
if I answered in this way to my clients i would find myself without a job: D
ok… “it is ready when its ready” and i renew my license only when “its ready when it is ready” became the present.
:D[/quote]
Would you eat a steak uncooked because it was on time ?
Or move into a house that was only partially finished because there had been bad weather delaying construction ? (I’ve had this one actually happen and we stayed with my parents until it was safe to move in)
We could push it out the door “on time” but it would very likely be half baked leaving you equally unsatisfied.
Thats not useful to you nor good for you or us.
iOS IS a huge project because it forces us to work on the new compiler, new frameworks and a host of other items all at the same time.
And while working on it things change that affect what we need to do.
Anyone notice the Xcode 6 changes ? Probably not. But they force us to spend a week to 10 days revamping something we hadn’t expected to. But we HAVE to because if we don’t your apps will not work except in the Xcode 5 simulator.
Or changes in iOS itself. Or changes in OS X that affect what we do.
In all honesty I suspect most people do NOT notice these things at all because you use Xojo and they affect US and the code we write and you can avoid having to pay attention to it. But they make a BIG difference to what we have to do - and that sometimes affects timelines.
That’s just reality.
So yes sometimes “its read when its ready” is the only answer we can give.