Alpha and Beta testers

General
1

< Continuation of a conversation started in https://forum.xojo.com/19276-itunes-connect-your-app-has-one-or-more-issues >

Since this started in a thread about the iTunes App Store and out of topic, I am starting this new conversation.

[quote=162206:@Karen Atkocius]Out of curiosity I searched the forum user list and found some current beta testers who are not Xojo Pro:

Björn Eiríksson (einhugur)
Thom McGrath (boy is his new picture different from his old one!)
William Koperwhats
Mattias Sandström

Tino Gruse
Oliver Schellhammer
Chris Mott
Carlos Antonio Cratere Hernández

Some of those have never been active on the forum or have very few posts. After the first four, none of the names were familiar.

IIRC I got 516 hits on my search for beta (BTW one Member’s last name is Beta but he is not a beta tester!) and some were on deleted members.

A LOT of the Xojo Pro beta testers have 5 posts or less, and the majority of those have 0. Wish I had counted them! :wink:
[/quote]

Thank you for looking this into.

This confirms my impressions that it is indeed possible for Xojo to add Alpha and Beta testers if they want to, which is probably the sensible way to have people really motivated to conduct tests.

The first four make sense. The other ones (and I have spotted a few others as well along time) may need some hard look. Unfortunately, Feedback does not have a search feature based on the name of the poster, so we will never know if they ever made any bug report, let alone in Beta and Alpha. Why do I suspect someone who has never participated in the forum may be just as dead in feedback ?

As I said, making all Pro licensee beta testers is just convenient, but most either do not have the time, or do not even know about it. Case in point : the license is acquired by the boss, who sees no reason to let his precious staff waste time in beta testing Xojo :wink:

It may be time for Xojo to reconsider it’s co-optation policy, to insure the better motivated ones get on board. In the past, people who were motivated could volunteer. Would it not be time to come back to that ? Xojo having all right to accept or refuse candidacies, of course, it would be a way to have very competent non-Pro licensees participate.

Just a thought…

2

Xojo Pro just guarantees beta access. They have always had the ability and right to add/remove. Anyone who wants to be a beta tester can surely email Xojo and ask. I do not believe they are intentionally trying to devalue anyones enthusiasm for the product. Karen seemed to feel slighted that she’s no longer a tester. Whatever automated mechanism performed that ‘cleanup’ probably did not take her contributions into account.

The larger issue here is there’s pressure to do better testing of releases. However the solution is never going to be the beta testers. Instead of ‘Beta Testers’ perhaps these should be ‘Technical Preview’ users like Microsoft does with Windows 10. Lowers expectations on both sides of the equation. I think all customers could benefit from getting earlier previews of the end product.

3

While we don’t always have time to test every beta release, I do always download them and as soon as I find time I do test our application against the current beta.
It has happened on occasion that our software has problems with a beta. If this happens we file a report.
I think it is good that people who rely on Xojo professionally get to test before release to make sure as many bugs as possible are caught before release.

4

I was one until the long pre-xojo release drought, when I was also tight on money and let my license lapse. I knew what the result of that would be. When Xojo was in beta I renewed and asked to be added back and was.

Being dropped with no notice, public or private,sends a strong message.

They could have posted it was coming on the beta channel before they did it, and if they wanted to, said to reapply if still interested. Either that or it was handled poorly with respect to customer relations - but I would think they would know that.

  • Karen
5

[quote=162291:@Karen Atkocius]I was one until the long pre-xojo release drought, when I was also tight on money and let my license lapse. I knew what the result of that would be. When Xojo was in beta I renewed and asked to be added back and was.

Being dropped with no notice, public or private,sends a strong message.

They could have posted it was coming on the beta channel before they did it, and if they wanted to, said to reapply if still interested. Either that or it was handled poorly with respect to customer relations - but I would think they would know that.

  • Karen[/quote]

I think you should reapply. It should be no problem.

6

[quote=162291:@Karen Atkocius]They could have posted it was coming on the beta channel before they did it, and if they wanted to, said to reapply if still interested.
[/quote]

I think the level of casual conversation in the beta forum needs to go down. It needs to be strictly bug/fix. Otherwise you risk very valuable conversations being lost when the beta channel is closed.

I disagree with your conclusion that Xojo does not value you. We have all written an automated script to do something too broadly only to discover we missed something. It’s best to just follow up with them and ask.

7

I seem to recall that when I applied previously, it was in response to an official notification or request that applications were welcome. Now that I’ve been removed from the beta program, I feel like if they wanted more applicants they’d ask for them. Without any word from Xojo, I get the impression they have all they want.

That said, if they do ask for applications again I’ll apply.

8

[quote=162295:@Bill Gookin]I seem to recall that when I applied previously, it was in response to an official notification or request that applications were welcome. Now that I’ve been removed from the beta program, I feel like if they wanted more applicants they’d ask for them. Without any word from Xojo, I get the impression they have all they want.

That said, if they do ask for applications again I’ll apply.[/quote]

Hopefully Xojo will give the official word soon :slight_smile:

9

After reading Phillip’s post I may email them in a while to find out. But you can’t deny me my speculating and getting angry time first! :slight_smile:

EDIT: Ok, speculation time is over. I sent an email. LOL

10

Unless you ask them, you (any of you) can only speculate/guess.

If you want to be a Beta Tester, ask for it. What is the worse thing they can say to you? no?

11

Alas, they replied and told me “the only way into the betas is with a current Xojo Pro license.”

12

Well it’s official then, but not 100% true. See my list above.

if they think that will sell more Pro licenses that way I think they are mistaken. Time will tell…

13

I have been asked many many times why I am not part of the beta test users…
and the requirement to own a “Pro” license is one reason… Not going to pay for things I don’t need,
just to have the ability to “help” with the next release.

14

If you ask customer service, that is usually what they say. Maybe asking the engineers will lead to a different reply. Marketing is one thing. Programming competence is another one. I would hate to see Xojo marketing department beta testing :wink:

The very silence from Xojo people in this thread tells a lot, though. Are they embarrassed or something ?

15

Looks like I got restored magically!

  • Karen
16

It isn’t only Pro users on Beta- though all Pro users get Beta access up front. We do make some allowances for those users who have helped out with recent reports- as it helps all of us end up with a better product.

17

[quote=162388:@Karen Atkocius]Looks like I got restored magically!

  • Karen[/quote]
    Me too! :slight_smile:
18

I submitted plenty of Alpha reports and some beta ones too. I don’t feel particularly slighted or anything that I’ve been removed from the beta program. However, I do think that it’s being used a little to try and sell Pro. I’m probably about to buy Pro, but I’d absolutely hate for Xojo Inc to think that they’ve pushed me into buying it to get back on the beta program :wink: I might hold off for a few weeks if I can :wink:

19

Gavin- you haven’t been removed from the Beta program. We updated several people today after the automatic script.

20

Well now I just look silly, was that the plan? :wink: