If you saw my other thread, 64-Bit is now my top priority, a framework I’ve been using for years in OS X, has now been removed for 32-Bit, which means when my customers upgrade, they’ll lose functionality in my application.
My only option at this point is to take what I know about Objective-C and put it actually creating a Objective-C based application (as opposed to understanding Objective-C and translating it to Xojo. I will attempt to create a small ‘helper’ application to bring the gap. What worries me, is what other frameworks that we don’t know about have also been removed for 32-Bit.
I don’t expect Xojo to drop iOS and focus on 64-Bit, as Norman has mentioned before, they have different developers working on different aspects, nor do I expect Apple to change their mind and suddenly add back 32-Bit support for this framework (why they continue to fix 32-Bit carbon and then actually remove 32-Bit Cocoa frameworks is beyond me).
The only choice I have, is what course of action I take. Bear in mind that not only do I pay Xojo, I pay Apple also ($99 a year and buying new machines).
I’m not as furious as I was earlier, but I still think Yosemite is Apple’s Vista. The GM is causing me many issues and not to mention that it look like tripe on a non-retina display. There are still font rendering issues and mis-aligned icons.
Apple needs to slow down a bit, iOS was rushed and is so buggy, it’s the first time I’m not rushing to update, now Yosemite is facing the same issues. They’re forgetting their QA!
[quote=133255:@Sam Rowlands]I’m not as furious as I was earlier, but I still think Yosemite is Apple’s Vista. The GM is causing me many issues and not to mention that it look like tripe on a non-retina display. There are still font rendering issues and mis-aligned icons.
Apple needs to slow down a bit, iOS was rushed and is so buggy, it’s the first time I’m not rushing to update, now Yosemite is facing the same issues. They’re forgetting their QA![/quote]
Looking at what happened at MS when Bill Gates left, one can only hope Apple does not have the same destiny. Though I still remember the shameful 90’s…
The latest moves with Yosemite and its crappy phone look has a striking similarity to the Windows 8 debacle, where using a phone interface for a desktop OS ruined it. Just hope the confusion will be limited to aesthetics.
As for bendable iPhones and buggy iOS that breaks so many existing apps and development tools, have they lost their mind ?
I find it very hard to understand how some people can find so much time to complain. All that time, if they are working for a living and not retired, has to be costing them a fair amount of money. I am fortunate, I am retired; however, I would have a hard time warranting wasting so much of my life complaining.
[quote]Really?
Not one of my customers has even breathed a word except to ask ‘does your app work on this 64bit version of Windows 7’[/quote]
Sigh. I thought so, too, until I had my first customer with a mail larger than 50 MB. This makes my app crash very fast because the main email parsing algorithm never was made for such large mails.
Discussing issues, which unfortunately sometimes require pointing out what is not quite right, is usually the way to advance things. It is never a waste of time.
So any Integer will in fact be a Uint64 and not a Uint32 anymore. But for all intents and purposes, unless someone was intently using the Uint32 rollover, it should not break code that use Integer today, right ?
[quote=133303:@Michel Bujardet]So any Integer will in fact be a Uint64 and not a Uint32 anymore. But for all intents and purposes, unless someone was intently using the Uint32 rollover, it should not break code that use Integer today, right ?
[/quote]
I use mostly pure Xojo code, but indeed now and then I employ declares or plugins. A quick look through the msdn and apple developer forums show that 32 bit libraries become obsolete and cannot be called directly, the common way of proceeding being an helper app.
People who demand 64 bits may have overlooked this nasty side effect : all current declares will have to be discarded and replaced by their 64 bit counterpart. MacOSLib as well as Windows Functionality Suite down the drain. Christian will have to rewrite all of his plugins.
Talking about major upgrade. When there are still people today sticking to Carbon because they are afraid of going Cocoa, how many will procrastinate against 64 bits ?
Why is this even a question? Xojo does not have an iOS solution. Period. Basing any business decision on the speculation that Xojo will release a complete iOS solution that does what you actually need it to do, in the next 12 months, is foolish.
So is foolish the stupid tag saying ‘ios Alpha Tester’ that implies an iOS Xojo product is on the way, enough to imply it may be leaving the vaporware status to enter the more respectable status of an after-al-maybe-one-day. How long will this annoying teasing go on ? If you now, as one of the privileged ones in the know, write that it is foolish to trust Xojo in the next 12 months, it is absolutely no point trusting that company anymore.
When I write " the angst of developers wondering where to turn for 50% of the device market", I am not saying I count on Xojo to fill the gap. On the contrary, when I read your reaction, I understand iOS Xojo is still a promise far from becoming fact, in spite of the tag boast. How bad is it ? No need to reply, you cannot talk about the Frankenstein monster…
It would be rather foolish to think the market will continue doing business as usual. Let us face it : iOS and Android devices are well on their way to become the primary screens, and to overcome desktop forever. Already, iOS is five times the size of Mac OS X in terms of devices, and each iOS device purchases 83 apps. How many apps does a Mac OS X machine get ? 10 ? 20 ? For each soon very passé Mac, iOS devices will receive 415 apps. Being a software developer, I should be comparing apples to apples : the iOS market is simply some like 20 times the size of the Mac OS X market, admitting only a Mac receives 20 apps on average, which I very much doubt.
You bet I feel angst when I realize my old fashion way of programming in Basic has cornered me on a fast thawing ice cube like a polar bear lots on the ocean. Does not mean I demand that Xojo pull out off a hat any magic rabbit. They are probably just as conscious as everybody else of the paradigm shift and the risk to become dinosaurs. I was sharing concerns and feelings, not basing business decisions. Actually I made a first decision and my first app iOS app is in Livecode. If iOS8 had not broken it like thousand others, it would be in the iTunes Store right now. I already have an app in the Android PLay store, thanks to Basic4Android. Anywhere Software is making strides and posting very encouraging progress reports in their forums, that make me think I may yet be able to program iOS in Basic, would it be elsewhere. I cannot afford to be left behind in the new world of tablets, phablets and smartphones.
At a time when Windows 10 comes to reality, it is apparent the same phenomenon is hitting that market, with what was the almighty OS on 90% of machines now shrunk to less than 30% of the total computing devices market, including iOS and Android. You bet Windows developers better be prepared for strange days ahead, if they cannot get on the portable devices in time. And even if one wants to get on the Windows Store wagon, one has to rewrite apps for the new API. Or at least revamp all old fashion Windows desktop apps to provide a decent touch support, in the hope Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 tablets will sell enough. I did not wait for anybody for that either. Foolish of me, I have a dozen apps in the Windows Store, all written with VS.
Foolish of me, I care about Xojo, in that brave new frontier full of opportunities and dangers like the Ol’West once was. If I did not care, I would simply take my chips to another gambling table…
I did not mean to imply you are foolish, and your response indicates you aren’t foolishly waiting for a Xojo product. Even if Xojo had a nice looking iOS product in beta, I still wouldn’t wait my business on it. Until it is actually released and working well, my position will be “Xojo does not have an iOS solution.” So please don’t read anything regarding the quality of the iOS alpha into my statement.
Just teasing, about the alpha. Yet, the more the iOS charade drags along and gets pushed over, the more my earlier qualificative of vaporware comes to mind. Just like the electron that does not exist until detected, quantum physics suggest iOS Xojo is still just a statistical conjecture…
In French, we have a saying : never two without three. Two XDC down, one to go for iOS Xojo the unseen
Although I would agree with your basic premise here, the fact is Xojo has announced they are working on the product. Didn’t they even do a preview at the XDC? To me it is foolish to preview a product then tell anyone who ask about it’s progress that it will be ready when it is ready. Honesty, to me it is a little disingenuous and disrespectful. I think a better approach if your going to announce products before they are ready is do a 90 day progress report with some meat in it, letting people know some of the challenges and the milestones and progress that has been made.
Better yet, if they don’t want people to ask, keep the darn thing a complete secret until it is Alpha or even Beta (Have alpha testers sign an NDA). This way when they do announce they’ll have a better grasp of what is involved and any time frames discussed are probably more accurate.
What purpose or advantage is there in announcing you’re working on ANYTHING? Is it to create excitement? Is it to let your customers you are not asleep and you’ll have a solution for something they are looking at - to maybe wait a bit and don’t move to something else because we’re going to have something - just trust us? The whole philosophy seems totally counter productive and breads conversations like we are having.
If we’re only to base decisions on what we have now rather than what is in the pipeline, then we’re going to have to assume we’ll never get 64 bit or any other improvements. Surely that is not the case and if it is I suspect they’re going to lose a bunch of customers if that is the decision process they want us to use.
The thread with a discussion of which should be pioritised; iOS or 64 bit - got locked. He said there is no going back and changing.
I think Xojo should change there priority. I do not care how long iOS will take them. That is far less important. I think 64 bit should come as soon as possible.
I think this is a bad decision from Xojo.
Out of curiosity, why did Xojo choose iOS instead of 64bit support? I do not see how iOS could be more important than 64bit support.
Oliver… as mentioned before… it makes no difference at all what you opinion (or mine, or any one elses is )… XOJO has a plan, and they have planned the work, and are now working the plan…
Why they did what they did, and why they didn’t do what they didn’t do, is their business (literally)…
So all these discussions and whining and complaining are a total waste of cyberspace.
If the tools provided don’t meet YOUR business plan, the plan on using another tool that does… again, basing YOUR business on promises is not profitable.
