Just wondering… Windows ARM 64 Builds came with xojo 2022 R2. Is there actually a timeframe when xojoscript will be available? Nothing heard so far…
I need xojoscript for several of my apps and actually this prevents me from building for windows ARM…
opened an issue… please upvote it…
@Geoff_Perlman Is there a timeframe when xojoscript for windows ARM64 will be shipped? Or did I miss something?
Timeframe? No. It’s on our list but it’s a pretty big project.
@Geoff_Perlman Thanks for clarification that it is on your list. Should it be mentioned in the roadmap?
Has anyone experience using xojoscript in a windows intel binary on Windows ARM64? Can Windows handle the xojoscript intel code via Microsofts compatibility layer?
It works fine in our testing. Regarding the roadmap, the problem is that it’s a very big job that, at least currently, does not have a lot of demand.
I’d be curious why this is a big project?
You build it already for Windows 64-bit for Intel and ARM64 on MacOS and Linux.
So this sounds like changing whatever scripts/project to build to use the right flags to use ARM64 for Windows. And then fix little things like a missing #if on the go. I know this is some work, but for our plugins, it was a very smooth transition.
And you may it eventually for having a native IDE on Windows for ARM.
When something like this rises up I immediately think in dependencies that escapes their domains, like some 3rd party library not available for some new target, for this case, Windows ARM64. While the author of their dependencies does not provide a solution for such target, they are hands tied or need to write their own code to abandon such dependency.
As simple as it sounds, it’s not. It’s extremely complicated with the effort required measured in the 6 to 12 month range and to make matters worse, Microsoft’s commitment to ARM is tenuous at best.
Now I’m very curious: can you give us a thumbnail sketch of the effort required? I think we sometimes take your team’s effort for granted and it would be illuminating to have some understanding of what has to happen.
Mostly (though not entirely) it has to do with the fact that realtime compilation in LLVM for Windows on ARM is not as mature as it is for other combinations of platform/CPU. Add to this that the marketshare for Windows on ARM is tiny and Microsoft’s interest is waning makes the business case more difficult.
For clarity, if someone came along and was interested in paying us a lot of money to support it, making it make sense from a business point of view, we are fully capable of doing all that is needed which would include additional work on our part for LLVM itself.
Actually Microsoft is putting a whole lot under for Windows Arm those days.
They even ported the whole Visual Studio to it.
I think its very obvious that Microsoft knows that ARM is going to rule the whole mobile and laptop market. MS has done their homework and fixed the Windows for ARM, many major applications and now last the whole Visual Studio.
The missing piece for them is still to let the snapdragon’s exclusive license expire. So they can start selling Windows Arm64. (This exclusive deal dates back to when they attempted the Windows Phone venture, where they partnered with snapdragon at the time). And this is largely the reason why Apple has no bootcamp for Windows Arm64, since Windows Arm64 licenses are not sold (and to buy one you need to buy from partner currently who has snapdragon hardware).
But if googling a bit around then its clear that this exclusiveness contract is thought to expire soon. I think we can expect big things to happen at that time when this market opens up.
Basically this here is the only thing holding Windows on Arm back right now:
They have been but I believe their interest may be waning. When you order a Microsoft Surface 9 for example, the default processor is the Intel core i5. Now that Is the least expensive but the next choice is the i7 which is the most expensive. That’s only then followed by the Q3, their ARM option which is between the two others price wise. You’d think they would be pushing ARM but they don’t appear to be.
Time will tell. If Microsoft is dedicated to ARM and makes more headway with it, then the LLVM team will likely also put more effort into their support for Windows on ARM.
Because the Snapdragons do not perform, and the products are not usable basically.
Other vendors are waiting to get seat at the table and hopefully they can do better.
MS Dev kit for Arm it takes almost whole day to install Windows, thats how slow we are talking about. While if you install Windows ARM on VM on Apple Silicon you have Windows up in minutes.
Wow. I’m surprised they would even offer it.
Using an Mac mini with Parallels and Windows 11 is the better choice to try Windows on ARM.
Any Current Mac (AS CPU) actually.
Or if want a weekend challenge to play with, try Win 11 on RPi
Or get one of these
Windows toolchain for Windows on ARM seems stable.
https://developer.arm.com/documentation/102563/0100/LLVM-support-for-Arm-based-devices
VMware’s support for ARM Windows is still a work in progress, but I have it running quite satisfactorily in Fusion now.