Something About Valentina... Or is it Me?

So I decided to have a look that Valentina offering included in the OmegaBundle:

  • Fired up the studio and connected to the sample Chinook database I have on a PostgreSQL server and asked it to generate a diagram - CRASH. Did it twice more and the same result

  • Installed the ADK and opened the TestProject and tried to run it - 32 errors: Redefined Identifier… Opened the SingleTable example 26 errors: many complaining that an item does not exist…

At this point I’m not evening to bother with the server… anyone experience the same issues

I downloaded the free valentina studio some weeks ago
tried to open a realstudiodatabase
it said “cannot open this database”
still on my hard drive, but unused since !

Yes. I get occasional emails asking my advice about database issues and Valentina is one of those topics that comes up on a regular basis.

Stability seems to be an issue for some. Those that have crashing issues soon get frustrated and abandon the product. For others Valentina works great. No issues and they love the speed.

I have looked at the reporting tool a couple of times in the past couple of years. It looks interesting and seems to work well. Now that it can work with SQLite, MySQL, and PostgreSQL it is far more useful than it was.

[quote=168638:@Bob Keeney]
Stability seems to be an issue for some. Those that have crashing issues soon get frustrated and abandon the product.[/quote]

Well stability is definitely a concern, but sending out examples that don’t run but it into a whole different category. I just can’t get my head around it.

I can’t speak for any modern Valentina examples, but I had that issue too, back in the day. The multiple ways of using the database from an RB app was confusing and the documentation didn’t help much.

Have you tried contacting Valentina support for help?

No I’ve put enough time into this - I just would not have the confidence in it. I’ll be sticking with PostgreSQL and SQLite. Thanks for the all the feedback.

Hi James,

TestProject - is not example in fact. Yes we have discover already that 32 errors: Redefined Identifier
This is because Xojo have changed something with visibility.
Fix is as simple as select that properties and change in the Inspector scope from Global to Protected.
This is fixed in our GIT, will be available in next 5.7.5 release.

But again, TestProject is not example actually. Mainly for our internal use - fast test of many API.

About crash in Diagrams and Postgre.

Well, I can only ask to put bug report into our Mantis Bug Tracker.

Where you can specify version of posture, OS, …
If crash happens on OSX, you have crash log. Also can be attached.

I think it will be great to get attached dump of SCHEMA of that Postgre DB.
Because I think something related to rare case in schema.

As only we can reproduce - we can fix.

Also … I have look on V4RB/Examples folder.

Do you talk about SingleTable and Tests from 1_x_Examples folder?
Akk, this is yet old v1.x examples.
Again, we have just trash this folder week ago. Please ignore it.

The most simple examples are in the Common folder.
then there is sense look on SQL_way folder.

API and Class_way – are for advanced developers who want gain maximal speed.

You may want take a look on entry point of WIKI docs about Valentina for Xojo

At bottom can be found - Valentina for REALbasic Example guide
Which describes that 70 Examples:

Yes, sometimes we have talks about this MANY WAYS

But rule is simple:

  • if you know how to work with mySQL or PostgreSQL or SQLite --> You know how to work with Valentina.

You can do CREATE TABLE in other dbs? What problems todo same CREATE TABLE in Valentina?

You know how to work with
dim curs as RecordSet = db.SqlSelect( “SELECT * FROM T WHERE…” )

You do the same with Valentina DB and its SQL-oriented methods
dim curs as VCursor = db.SqlSelect( “SELECT * FROM T WHERE…” )

Very similar.

And only when you get something working,
and only if you want something exotic and faster
then you can spend time to play with API way of Valentina, what other DBs like to name NO-SQL.

Hi James - Im sorry you’ve had this combination of experiences. As Ruslan mentioned, if you submit the problem to Mantis, for the diagrams problem, our engineers will check it out immediately. Ruslan also replied to the other issue.

We support a lot of different environments, and sometimes the IDE / environment company makes some changes, like that visibility issue we find out from customer feedback first. We fix them as soon as we know about them, not months, and typically not weeks later, but within X number of days.

One big hurdle some find (as Bob mentioned) are the different models for working with databases. Ruslan’s mention of the two advanced ones, API and Class ways, are for developers who want to step around the common database API for databases in Xojo because of the benefits. If you are a fan of Stargate SG-1 (rewatching now), this is like Sam’s bypassing Stargate safety protocols - because it takes a much deeper understanding of how those models work, its easier to get something unexpected when you are starting to work with them. The advantages are typically much, much greater advances in speed, and also much shorter and readable SQL.

I’ve used valentina for some years now. I find it very stable.

I use direct API i.e. direct with table in valentina for update and add.
For selects I use SQL and put them into cursors. It is so fast. And simple.

Also, the way you can simplefy the sql selects statements is one of the two best reasons for using it. The first is of course speed.

We purchased both the Valentina APK and Studio Pro… For us, the process was quite painful. At the time, we were new to XoJo, and were struggling with getting our project started. The Valentina documentation is all online, which would not normally be an issue, but what can happen is that their sever will ‘block’ you, disallowing access,. You are instructed to request an unblock via facebook, which we did multiple times without any luck. After multiple emails and communication attempts, we were finally told that we needed to "post’ our issues in the Valentina blog support area, which is not really an option when you cant logon. Eventually if you send enough emails, the Valentina folks will tell you they cant help you until you post the problem on their tech support site, which you cant do because you are blocked, and your ID no longer works. We fiddled with this until mid February, and finally gave up. Without access to the documentation, it was not feasible for us to continue, and waiting weeks or months for a resolution is not practical. I am sure that for some, this sounds workable, but for mission critical applications, probably not so much. I understand that a vendor can become ‘annoyed’ by customer requests, but refusing to resolve an access issue to a ‘resource’ required to use a product you ‘sold’ to them, should probable fall under the refund category.
We have purchased MANY third party products for XoJo, and other than Valentina, our experiences have been excellent!

A long time ago I worked with Valentina: The product was excellent, reliable, very well integrated Xojo (thanks to his classes. It’s much better integrated than realdatabase/sqlite!), and fast. The support was excellent too. It’s not very fair play to post a review here without having to contact Valentina support before … Even the examples provided by Xojo longer work sometimes when Xojo made changes.

Hi Rick, I’m sorry to hear your bad experience. My case has been the quite opposite. Yes they can be slow sometimes, but I can not expect them to give me solutions within 1 hour :slight_smile:

Usually there are two guys moderating the forums and the mantis (bug-reporting system), and Lynn is handling the commercial stuff. I have to say I’m pretty satisfied with them. And you have to take into account that some of them do not have a mother thoung in English, some nuances are “lost in translation”.

And btw, the documentation is also available as a download as a PDF, which is searchable…

link text

You are interesting person Rick.
I think you have told not complete story :slight_smile:
And if you decide move this here okay.

Story is next:

  • Rick on our forum and by email contact me for assistance: I need develop in Xojo some import of CVS file into SQLite or Valentina DB. — I have explained over all how should looks algorithm.

  • Rick says: I need exact example which do exactly task I need. I am copy-paste person from examples. And I have found SQLite example, so I will go by SQLite. Ruslan says - okay, but task is so simple, I do not see where you have troubles. If you want I will make you working project with Valentina.

  • Next day or so I have made such project for Rick and send it.

[quote]> Thank you sir!!

Just a dumb question …
(see attached)

Why does xojo create these files with the . In the name?

It seems every file has a duplicate name, 1k file with a . Prefix

Again, thanks so much for getting me started …
I am really looking forward to using this!!![/quote]

Even more intreating the next letter

[quote]> First Impressions…

I am now going to go thru and try to Learn from your example … Thank you
for making this simple enough for a beginner, this looks really easy to

I just wanted to also say how much I like studio, I immediately did a
diagram of the database you sent me, excellent documentation tool!!!

i.e. the same peson Rick William says - docs are excellent :slight_smile:

  • Next letter from Rick comes with question about Xojo, how to make progress bar…
    Me say: Hmm, don’t you think this is question to Xojo Team and forum?
    but I have explain how …

  • Next question comes and my answer

And it seems to me Rick have become offended by this note.

Especially this was visible when next day Rick have send letter to support of Xojo, talking to them how he love them and that he going to use SQLite instead of Valentina DB … and he have BCC this letter to me… I underline, not CC but BCC.

Don’t know … may be I am really was not so kind enough providing free email help to totally newbie user …

But I think I really should not develop your project instead you, right?
If I have offended you, I am sorry.

That is all very well and good, but publishing that on the forum is not very professional, especially since in the end you fail to address the issue raised - a question of access! As far as I’m concerned your response is totally useless.

Yes Rick was blocked automatically on our site, probably because 3 times was login with wrong password. This is Joomla protection from hackers.

This have happened may be to 5 persons for last 3 months.
Everybody was unlocked manually or automatically in 24 hours.
Rick have had with us some email exchange about this.

Rick, do you mean that you still have no access to our site?
If yes – you need just contact Lynn Fredricks by email.

Dear Rick,

with all respect.

I have told you – it is better to ask this on Valentina FORUM, because sometimes I am busy and read emails too late, and our other developers can help faster on forum.

Yes… I am STILL blocked, and it is now March

I did ask you for help with getting started with Valentina, and you provided some examples I was thankful for, Given the sample programs provided with Valentina did not work, (crashed), and I was thankful for additional assistance.
I was anxious to use Valentina, and being new, the sample programs were something I relied on.
I agree with James, posting these exchanges is very unprofessional, and quite frankly beside the point.
The samples delivered with Valentina did not work. I appreciated the initial start, however I also needed access to users guides, documentation and how-to’s. Over the next few weeks, I sent over 13 requests to have my site access restored, and 4 from facebook as directed. I repeat we STILL don’t have access!
It is interesting that you chose to ‘edit’ the comments in the emails you posted in this forum.
The bottom line is that you did not restore my access to the badly needed documentation, and ignored all my correspondences to do so. I could not post issues on a forum I was locked out of.
Without a working example, and without any documentation, we were lost.
It was you that offered to assist. you who pushed using Valentina on this project, and you who said you would do whatever it took to get me started, When we had issues you ignored us.
Asking questions is a natural part of learning a new product. If you don’t want to help someone, that’s fine, just send them to a forum that you have locked them out of.
We are doing very well on our project now that Valentina is no longer part of the equation.