I say this because, until Xojo sorts out AVkit for Apple (if they ever) and we get AVkit’s array of tools for movie player - as well as equivelants for windows,
Xojo will never be the cool app that it used to be a couple of years ago. I still will use the last version of v3 as I have got the quicktime, OpenAL all sorted with this. I use QuicktimeMBS.
Right now, I’m learning C and C++ which have many more libraries than Xojo has - and many of them are free!
Nothing makes you appreciate Xojo more than learning C/C++.
The nice part is there is no penalty for not renewing. Once AVKit (or fill in your pet feature) is implemented, dive back in and pick up where you left off.
Except learning Objective-C!
You could wait a long time as AVKit has no cross platform equivalent on Windows or Linux.
Apples decision to basically stop using or updating Quicktime for Windows in any significant way hurts any kind of x-platform capability. Apple doesn’t even use it for iTunes any more. They basically compile a private version of AVKit as a dll for iTunes (which of course has no redistribution rights no header files etc we don’t even know what the entry points are etc).
So we can’t leverage their AVkit oon Windows even if we wanted to.
Quicktime made it possible to have some reasonable x-platform av functionality - but thats now dead
Oh
and quicktime will never allow you to get in the MAS nor will it ever be 64 bit
You’ll be stuck in the past
I will be… renewing, that is. I too have frustrations (especially with the slowness of the IDE on the Linux platform); however, to look back and see how far these guys have come with Xojo, and the support they provide on the forums (I’m a Pro user and never had to put in an official request for support because the community here is so awesome enough to assist with EVERY issue I’ve had… and fairly quickly too). The language is easy, it has cross-platform capabilities, and it’s continuing to grow (just look back at all the releases and history logs).
Good 'ol Norman here takes a beating from folks on the forum (myself being guilty of this when I’ve gotten frustrated before), and he’s still here helping out when he can. (I live above a pub, and if I had his job… I’d keep the pub in full-time business just myself).
So, sorry to hear about your frustrations and good luck on whatever it is you find that works for you. Just keep in mind that when dealing with multiple platforms, some things are out of their hands when the developers of the OS themselves decide to make changes. This isn’t Xojo’s fault. But regardless, they’ll still be here in the future sometime if you ever decide to take another look and see what has changed and is being offered.
Even you learn C, C++ or Objective-C, you’re gonna have to write two applications if you want x-plat support. There is no universal movie functions any more (which is a real shame, but that’s how it goes I guess). So you’d have to write a C based Mac application (dealing with all the C APIs on the Mac side, even to get controls to display and function how you want), then you can take the base of your C Mac application, and re-write the whole damn thing against Windows APIs.
Unless you have a team of developers, I would suggest that if you don’t want to stick with Xojo, you should consider picking one platform and targeting that. Don’t spread yourself too thin.
If you stick with Xojo, you don’t need to worry about many of the different APIs, Christian may even be able to help you by tapping into the Windows video frameworks, then you can create a wrapper to switch between only these two frameworks (rather than everything).
[quote=84051:@Sean Clancy]I say this because, until Xojo sorts out AVkit for Apple (if they ever) and we get AVkit’s array of tools for movie player - as well as equivelants for windows,
Xojo will never be the cool app that it used to be a couple of years ago. I still will use the last version of v3 as I have got the quicktime, OpenAL all sorted with this. I use QuicktimeMBS.
Right now, I’m learning C and C++ which have many more libraries than Xojo has - and many of them are free![/quote]
you go girl
One way to get universal movie support is to display the file in an HTMLViewer. Of course, you don’t get editing, but dem’s the breaks.
What about ffmpeg? Its cross-platform allows editing, streaming, recording, playback, and converting naively? The source code is available, uses the #1 video/audio codec, and had a ginormous project-base, and many commercial products have “Frankensteined” the source code
http://www.ffmpeg.org/projects.html
Possibly a new cross-platform plugin for AV could be created?
Just a thought. … In the past I’ve created crossplatform apps using ffmpeg for playing/converting video and recording audio and video plus streaming from webcams…of course this was shell based and limited API usage, but in a plugin form these could all be handled by Xojo inherently. Maybe Christian has already done this as part of the MBSPlugins?
+1 on ffmpeg
I’ve seen Sean’s app and it is very impressive but heavily dependend on QT so I feel for him.
Yep, ffmpeg should be the solution.
While it is nice to expose some OS specific API, I think the Xojo team should try to expand their mind beyond the Mac OS X centric vision and try to adopt more widely used cross-platforms solutions (although I understand there are some constraints regarding MAS etc… that have to be taken into account, for sure).
I recall having red this in another thread:
Well, I guess it’s time to fully implement this vision : - )
Forget about Quicktime. AVKit should just be a ‘bonus’ for OS X users, Meanwhile, give us a true cross-platform solution for AV.
Cheers,
Guy.
I see ffmpeg more oriented to a 3rd party developer than Xojo. I use other developer tools and when there are enough number of developers requesting to integrate a library, they collect money and pay a plugin developer to create a library. Costs are less, they get what they need faster, everybody happy.
I believe Xojo team has ton of work with awesome features (LLVM, 64 Bit, iOS, IDE) to better work on “CORE” than libraries.
[quote=84151:@Amando Blasco]I see ffmpeg more oriented to a 3rd party developer than Xojo. I use other developer tools and when there are enough number of developers requesting to integrate a library, they collect money and pay a plugin developer to create a library. Costs are less, they get what they need faster, everybody happy.
I believe Xojo team has ton of work with awesome features (LLVM, 64 Bit, iOS, IDE) to better work on “CORE” than libraries.[/quote]
While a 3rd party plugin is a solution I would have to disagree with your vision for core - unless you believe Xojo should just be a database front-end.
Xojo is a cross-platform tool, and audio and video are important components of that, even though they never did seem to get much attention from Xojo (I had my fair share of bugs to fight). So far Xojo had it relatively easy as Apple provided the cross-platform capability with QuickTime and Xojo could simply tap into it. But that is no longer the case. So shall we now simply declare audio and video no longer part of the cross-platform compatibility “core” and announce “problem solved”?
I know this is probably a bit off topic but does this not raise an interesting point that maybe someone could create a KickStarter type system for Xojo where plugin developers could post up plugins they are thinking about writing with a cost and people could sponsor the development and those that sponsor get a license for the final plugin. It could also work the other way round that people could post up plugins that they would like to see and plugin developers could put up a price for the work and then people could sponsor it, the original poster could sponsor the whole development if they wished. Just a thought but something I would be interested in using to get hold of really cool add-on plugins for Xojo.
[quote=84189:@Markus Winter]While a 3rd party plugin is a solution I would have to disagree with your vision for core - unless you believe Xojo should just be a database front-end.
Xojo is a cross-platform tool, and audio and video are important components of that, even though they never did seem to get much attention from Xojo (I had my fair share of bugs to fight). So far Xojo had it relatively easy as Apple provided the cross-platform capability with QuickTime and Xojo could simply tap into it. But that is no longer the case. So shall we now simply declare audio and video no longer part of the cross-platform compatibility “core” and announce “problem solved”?[/quote]
My view of Core is the language itself, compiler, debugger and linker. Different Frameworks (QuickTime, Encryption, etc) can be easily expanded or created by Xojo, 3rd party authors and some developers as well. A Database would be a framework…
I don’t see the point of adding more features to the old framework, while a new one is being created and the core will get a major overhaul. My priorities are getting 64 Bit and LLVM the sooner and better the possible, iOS, new frameworks.
Particularly I am not interested at this moment in FFMpeg plugin, but that can be solved by wrapping the library and creating a plugin. That’s the beauty of Xojo. If you think this should get priority over the planned schedule, I am sorry to disagree with you Markus… (in a very polite way, of course :D)
Absolutely! Plugin development seems arcane magic and I guess I can count the number of plugin authors with my hand. In the other development kit I seldom use, there is an special forum where requesters put a plugin request, members add the money for supporting the plugin, and then libraries/plugins authors accepts the work. All bidders get access to early development, some source code.
Yeah, this is getting a bit off-topic, although interesting!
[quote=84195:@Amando Blasco]My view of Core is the language itself, compiler, debugger and linker. Different Frameworks (QuickTime, Encryption, etc) can be easily expanded or created by Xojo, 3rd party authors and some developers as well. A Database would be a framework…
I don’t see the point of adding more features to the old framework, while a new one is being created and the core will get a major overhaul. My priorities are getting 64 Bit and LLVM the sooner and better the possible, iOS, new frameworks. [/quote]
I can agree with that view of core, and I agree on the priorities you stated. My view was more based on what core functionality I expect from a cross-platform tool., and in that regard Xojo has gone a few steps backwards for both Sean and me.
I seriously hope they add this missing functionality again at some point but I would not expect it for a few years at least.
Anyone whos interested in the idea of Crowd Funded Plugins I have created a new post to discuss the idea etc so as not to hijack this post.
In the 90’s I used C for a while. What I still remember from that period was that everybody else was much faster than myself when getting projects done. Even after a while I had a lot of reusable code, methods, functions and classes, still those people using RAD tools beated me.
Maybe it is me being very slow but when I used VB4 (at that time) I started to beat myself. I spended a lot of time learning C and I am now glad I did, because it still helps me writing much cleaner code.
I understand the frustration of Sean Clancy completely, I have the same frustration about the LLVM/64bit postpone. I think it is understandable. But over one month, Xojo celebrates its first birthday. I agree that Xojo already developed and improved a great way. I am sure a replacement for the lack of AV at the Windows side will come as the introduction of the LLVM compiler. Just be patient like me.
Xojo, together with this community makes application development much more rapid and easier. It is a very powerfull RAD development tool even when taken its shortcomings into account.
Take a look at the Monkeybread website, maybe they have a solution which fits your needs.