I’m not going to name any particular names at the moment, because if you use these add-ons then you know exactly who I am referring to… and if you operate and sell these add-ons and this post fits the argument, then you know exactly that I am referencing you:
I’ve purchased 3rd-party add-ons by at least two different vendors, and both are having issues keeping up with the latest changes in Xojo which have broken different aspects of their product. Problem I have is, these issues have been known for awhile… and all I keep seeing on their pages are ‘an update will be available soon’, or ‘I’ll work on a fix this weekend’ and nothing ever gets updated or followed-up with even weeks afterwards.
It’s hard enough alone sometimes w/ the expense of Xojo, keeping up with the changes and the issues they are having; however, spending more on 3rd-party add-ons that also get broke and not updated are like adding salt to existing wounds. Not sure how much more of this I’m willing to put up with in this community before I just walk away. It’s simple… if you have a product, and you are charging people to use it (SPECIFICALLY W/ A TIME-SENSITIVE LICENSE) update your damned product. Even more so if you make claims you’re doing so publicly already, but are not delivering.
Eric, unless you cite these products clearly, your post is of absolutely no interest to the community whatsoever. If what you have to say is destined to private parties and intended to be kept incomprehensible to the general public, please make it private and limited to the persons implied in your post. Otherwise, please be kind enough to enlighten your readers … Let alone to prevent others to fall prey to these apparently bad deals.
Well, I do not know exactly which plugin you bought and had problems, but I will say that it has happened to me a few years ago I bought a plugin to make a fundamental function in one of my projects, after 1 year there were changes in Mac OS and the plugin stopped working and I found out that the developer would not update and withdrew from the market, it left me with no way to make my software for a long time to get in our own way to solve this problem, so I’ll try never buy anything that is closed and I do not have to have a relative control over it.
[quote=119215:@Eric Brown]I’m not going to name any particular names at the moment, because if you use these add-ons then you know exactly who I am referring to… and if you operate and sell these add-ons and this post fits the argument, then you know exactly that I am referencing you:
I’ve purchased 3rd-party add-ons by at least two different vendors, and both are having issues keeping up with the latest changes in Xojo which have broken different aspects of their product. Problem I have is, these issues have been known for awhile… and all I keep seeing on their pages are ‘an update will be available soon’, or ‘I’ll work on a fix this weekend’ and nothing ever gets updated or followed-up with even weeks afterwards.
It’s hard enough alone sometimes w/ the expense of Xojo, keeping up with the changes and the issues they are having; however, spending more on 3rd-party add-ons that also get broke and not updated are like adding salt to existing wounds. Not sure how much more of this I’m willing to put up with in this community before I just walk away. It’s simple… if you have a product, and you are charging people to use it (SPECIFICALLY W/ A TIME-SENSITIVE LICENSE) update your damned product. Even more so if you make claims you’re doing so publicly already, but are not delivering.[/quote]
Well said! A developer should stand behind their product or retract it from the market.
I won’t name any names either, but this thread is an excellent example of why add-on developers need to be careful about who they sell to. There isn’t a single add-on available in this ecosystem where it’s worth updating immediately in emergency mode so that some guy doesn’t passive aggressively call you out on the forums.
Eric, if this had been me you called out like this, you’d have lost access to updates, and we would negotiate a partial refund in exchange for destroying all copies of my product. As it stands, you’re now on my list of people I will not do business with.
If y’alls want add-ons available in this market, act like pros. Calling people out like this is a jerk move.
[quote=119287:@Norman Palardy]Floored
Just floored[/quote]
Who are you floored with Norman? The thing I love about this is how the 3rd party add-on developers are the only ones “expected” to have everything together with each release Xojo lets out. You guys get a mulligan for the embedded frame security issue, for example, while whatever developers are being called out by Eric must have zero-day fixes while a .1 release is in the works or he might get irritated with them.
Frankly, I’m floored that this whole topic is acceptable for these forums. Dealing with people respectfully and all that. Seeing this garbage aired like this isn’t an incentive to sell add-ons. But the point seems kinda lost on you guys of late.
Oh Brad, you have nothing to worry about there… I can promise you that. I also see it ironic how you’re now a poster boy for ‘professionalism’. You go, you.
Also, for the record, I don’t expect people to fix updates on a dime. I, as any other developer, know it’s impossible. I know that Xojo can break things in updates, and expect the developers of add-ons to take some time in getting a fix. What I don’t agree w/ is when said developer posts on their blogs “here is the problem, and I’ll be working on a fix this weekend” (leaving the people who bought their product hanging) and then never delivering. This isn’t a single incident either. When they state something like that on THEIR SITE, I relay that message TO MY CLIENTS (when I’m using their product for some core functionality that suddenly no longer works). When the developer doesn’t deliver as they stated… it makes ME LOOK BAD.
Still, this Forum is not the correct place for a complaint like yours, @Eric Brown .
You have a contract with the devs of those Plugins. Give them as much information about your issue as you can and help them find a solution. Use this Forum please, to find workarounds for such issues by giving us as much information as possible too. I am sure here are many who would be more then just willing and able to help you.
But just complaining here anonymously, is not helping anyone. It just makes us all feel sad…
That said, i am ok with the Xojo girls and guys, if they mute and remove such Threads from this forum. This forum is for the development not for the rage.
Please excuse my weak english. I hope i am not misunderstud (again)
Everybody in the chain can break compatibility for ever what reason, you cannot build everything yourself and even that is no guarantee. It depends about what roll out we are talking: if you run your software under your own control, you can decide to stick with current versions so you have reasonable time to develop altertatives; if you are selling software to a customer, it’s a mutual responsibility to make a good plan for the sustainability of the product you’re developing. I had to deal with Escrow several times and when customers’ business depends on updates, it’s wise to buy the sourcecode which is crucial. @Bob Keeney has written a good story about how to set up your contracts.
Exactly what I was trying to say above. This thread does not serve any purpose other than leave a sour taste. If Eric had posted the name of these badly supported products, it would be a service to fellow developers. Consumer reports do exactly that regularly for paint and power tools to cars. But an anonymous rant about unknown products is just a disgrace.
All he had to do was to let these people have a piece of his mind without littering the forum with an irrelevant and pointless private conversation.
I cannot believe I am writing it but here it goes : this thread should be locked.
I may have been able to of handled it more appropriately, and to that… I apologize. What I learned from this; however, is to depend on myself more. I was hesitant to go with 3rd-party vendors for help. I see them advertising in the forums, etc. all the time. I took a chance, which I will now no longer do. Could I reveal the name(s) of the people I feel burnt from… I could. But I chose not to. Unwisely, perhaps… but I still feel it’s appropriate at this time.
So this whole thread will have served nothing. As you say they advertise in the forums all the time. If they really do not deliver what they advertise and you are positive about what you imply, you should definitely warn fellow developers against these practices to allow them to avoid being burnt. The only conclusion to your retention of information is either you do not care about other being hurt, or you are not 100% sure to be right. In both cases you should have contacted privately the add-on developers/publishers instead of making a senseless fuss.
Nope, I don’t see it that way. Perhaps I want people in this community to understand they need to be cautious and investigate the 3rd-party add-ons before they dive in. Just about every other post in here has at least one advert or another from them. They ONLY reason I haven’t revealed who I’m referring to in this post is because I AM giving them the benefit of a doubt (even though my PMs are not being replied to, and their blog/forum is censored [you can’t post new posts/comments without them getting ‘approval’], so I didn’t even bother trying to post there). What I do know is that they are frequent visitors to this forum. I hope this thread helps them understand the frustration… and not of just myself. Those that use the add-ons already likely know who I’m referencing. You say this thread is useless, and maybe you’re right. But maybe it’ll make others chose carefully before they just go throwing their money and time at ANY outside source before looking into them. Maybe it’ll make the developers of these add-ons know that if you say something to your clients, by God, fall through with your commitment. Once, is understandable, but repeatedly… it’s unacceptable. This is the last I’ll say in this thread. Close it if need be… remove it if necessary (I trust Xojo’s judgement). I know that a few of you commenting here want information, and don’t understand the intent. I think there’s more out there that do, and understand exactly what I’m saying. Again, I’m just not ready yet to pull names and post them. This entire thread is my ‘benefit of a doubt’. Those it’s directed to… man up, or start issuing refunds.
Well, for MBS I can say that Christian replies very quickly, and his mailing list is top notch.
For Einhugur I had less success with my questions but since I never got an answer it might be that my mails were never received. I know of one case where someone finally called me at work because I never replied to his emails, but I never received any. Weren’t in my Spam folder either.
A more sensible topic would have been to ask: “I use this and that from XYZ and am having problems. Does anybody else use them successfully? I also can’t seem to get a reply by email - maybe someone could ask them to see if they got my emails.”
I can add that I can spend half of my time on the plugins as I charge enough for them and have a couple of products. This provides enough money to actual make that time worth spent.
Other developers may not make enough money from the tiny xojo addon market to be able to spend enough time supporting their products.
So contact the developer, tell him your issue, see what it costs for a private commitment so you don’t look bad. Calling anyone out for that like you did here isn’t going to motivate them to help you. In fact, most people, given the opportunity, enjoy watching a blame shifter squirm.
I had to ask Christian in 3 Cases for his advise and never had to wait any longer than 1 hour for a reply to my requests via mail. PLUS, i did not even had to expect a solution via mail, because he has other support channels to offer.
Just for the record: In all 3 cases, i made mistakes. So i NEVER had any issue caused by a MBS Plugin. Since YEARS.
I had to contact Einhugur 2 times for advise an got my answers via mail with 1 week. This is not as fast as Christian is, but i do not expect that anyone is making a living just out of Xojo Plugins. This is why is wouls say, even Einhugur answered my questions fast.
I also have Plugins bought from many more like piDog and BKeeney f.e. and i was and i am a very happy PlugIns user. They made my life easier countless times already.
