Did you see @Tim_Parnell announcement that he implemented mouse events?
Like I wrote
I canât think of a single time since we released the first web framework 10 years ago that we ever had to suddenly put out a new release because apps were broken by an update to a popular web browser.
Remember that (as has already been stated) browsers are standards-based and a Xojo web app spits out HTML, JavaScript, and CSS behind these scenes just like one written directly using those technologies.
A desktop app is far more likely to suddenly âbreakâ due to some OS update (though that too is rare) than a web app breaking due to a browser update.
The MORE likely scenario would be that you canât yet move your app from Web Framework 1.0 to 2.0 and while adding functionality you encounter a new bug that cannot be worked around. This too seems very unlikely but theoretically it could happen.
Most users can move their apps to Web Framework 2.0 but we realize that there are a few missing functions that a some users require. We are working on adding those so all users can move their projects if and when they wish. I know that for some of you, youâre feeling caught in the middle and thatâs understandable. I think the risk of their being a bug you canât workaround prior to being able to move to Web Framework 2.0 is very low but should it happen, we are here to help you figure out a solution.
Keep in mind that some wonât and probably should not move their apps. If I had a large web app that was working fine and was likely to reach the end of its life in the next 5 years, moving it to Web Framework 2.0 would not be an attractive option. However, if I didnât know how long it would be in use and liked some of the benefits of Web Framework 2.0, Iâd be considering it.
@Geoff_Perlman I am not speaking about a Browser, I am speaking about the operating system. There will come the time xojo 2019r3.x will not work anymore and exactly that moment is extremely dangerous for me cause I can not move my Apps. Because I have to take care that my customers will have their apps I can not count on a one way ticket. I have to have all over the time the option that this can not be happened. Please understand that because of this I will not be happy to stay on 2019r32 what is not updated anymore.
The situation would be different if there would be the functionality in 2020 needed for me and many others. There is no chance when you are in a regulated environment to decide to develop with an old tool what is not supported anymore. Thatâs Software development rules not made by me, made by the technical standards. It is really complex to setup a software if it is not supported anymore as the future development environment when in the same time I have to say that there is no chance to climb up the hill because the manufacturer was decidsing different. When - and it will be so - this is the case I have no chance to stay with xojo, my only chance is to rewrite the entire applications on a new plattform, still supported.
If you would ever have a technical audit of fda ion your house you would know what I am speaking about. And the same you will have for Aviation Software and other technical Software developments. There is a small part of Software you can even than develop.
Thatâs why I am fighting for a release system with further supporting the old version, in this case 2019, until the new version is ready for production. To push out 2020R1 as production Version made for us more than one problem. Biggest ones you know byself. One I found out today, I can not move my Webserver-Applications cause there is no CGI in xojo anymore. So, what are you thinking about industrial developers under authorized control, can they do what they want to or do they have to follow the rules given by law? I guess we will on the same line: we have to follow the law.
My complaining is not because I want or like to rant. It is because it makes a really big pile of money worthless. Until now it was working, from now on not anymore. And this I need a way out. And no, it is not helping that you are calculating chances. If Apple changes bigger parts in their OS, 2019 it automaticaly at its end. And we cannot deliver. Same with Microsoft.
Hello Geoff,
Itâs still a bit daring to say that. I read on Xojoâs blog that it took a whole dayâs work to convert Eddieâs Electronic to version 2. A whole day for a tiny â3 functionsâ app.
There is already a professional user who converted a big web app here? With a lot of pages, big use of webSDK, etc? This is a real question, not irony. More importantly, how much did it cost?
Because one working day is 500 euros. One to two months of work to do the conversion, and especially with all the work of new tests, exchanges with customers who will send a lot of questions because some things will have changed, new tests again, new bugs, new releases, new communication with the customer, etc., itâs a lot of money. And a lot of delay for all the features that our customers are already waiting for.
Maybe Dana could send a survey to the business users? Like âAre you currently selling a web app to customers?â, âIf so, have you started to study how long it will take you to convert the App with the new framework?â, âAre you satisfied with the new features/conversion cost ratio?â.
I wonât bet that HTTP 1.0, among others, will still be accepted by web browsers for a long time to come⊠Security requirements are increasing much faster than 10 years ago. But Iâm not a specialist, I hope Iâm wrong.
Eddieâs doesnât have a lot of screens but thereâs a plenty of code for handling database operations and UI that would not be duplicated in a larger app. So I donât think you can judge an app by the number of layouts it has. Updating the layouts was the fastest part. If Eddieâs had 20 more layouts, that might have added an hour to two to the process.
I work at an university and we license software products for our research (database driven, for aquiring and processing data). Every 2 to 3 years there are new major releases of the software products and the new versions are not backwards compatible (because the database schema changed). The options the software vendors give us are:
- Upgrade to the new version a.s.a.p. and get the newest functions. If you encounter some bugs they will be fixed fast (there are bug-fix releases roughly every month).
- Keep running the old and stable version as long as you like. The old version will still get bug fixes for a limited time of 12 Months after the new version was released.
This system works very well for us. Usually we choose to wait a couple of months before we upgrade.
As far as I understand, Web 2.0 will be upgraded in the next months so that most of the currently critically missing features will be available. Maybe if Xojo would provide their customers option 2 (= continue fixing bugs in Web 1.0 for a limited time) some of currently existing conflicts could be avoided.
@Christian_M this would release all the problems and that would be the change in release system I would beg for the entire time: do not stop to support the last release before new release is production ready because I would not have any problem if the maintenance still would be there and the version not deprecated. In this moment I could wait even until 2028 for production ready status of release 2020. It makes no problem cause I have a production ready IDE and compiler still under maintenance. Thatâs really needed. Thatâs why we pay for Software companies.
Hi guys, Iâve seen such a long list of avatars in this Topic that I thought I should joined the party tooâŠ
I must admint I donât really get what it is really aboutâŠbeside deep problems with mouse, mouse up, mouse downâŠmouses events (gettinâ married ?)
(and noone yet talked about a catâŠ).
Since its about Release stuff and that Iâve been learning Python beside for the past two months (almost a Guru then ! ) I thoughâŠhey maybe I could place a request for a Python integration âŠbeside the Xojo language ! âŠyeah, Okay, you can stop laughing by nowâŠ
If anyone understand if there could be something usefull to help solving some problems here from this other topics involving âMousesâ and âPythonsââŠ
hope it could be usefull (and maybe help some Minds) opening the Xojo IDE to other languages such as⊠Rust âŠor PythonâŠ!
and therefor bring another huge community of users worlwide to this Cool and Great Xojo IDEâŠ
my 2 cents
Have a funâŠand Safe⊠Week End !
Itâs going out of topic here we should close and wait what xojo is deciding
Imho this doesnât apply to every project. Eddieâs doesnât use a lot of controls and its UI is very basic. If youâd have 20 more of those simple layouts, then yes, youâll be very fast to update.
But, if your project makes a larger use of CSS, Javascript, WebStyles, nested ContainerControls the WebSDK and so on, then you probably need a day or so for just one view.
Donât get me wrong. I donât say, what you say is wrong. But always when I read answers from Xojo, it sounds that you donât believe us, that the conversion will be horrific. It totaly seems to me, that you think that weâre overreacting. While this could be, it currently makes the angry mob even more angry, cause it doesnât feel like, that weâre heard by you guys.
This is what I âhearâ amidst the noise, as well. My web apps simply canât be converted to web 2.0 without more work that the original code required to write in the first place. NGH (not gonna happen). And, since we run the apps as standalone apps on Linux servers, it luckily doesnât have to be done.
I have no doubt that some people have projects that will take longer because they have more complex layouts. In fact, Iâm pretty sure I said that in my blog post.
Most of our users donât appear to have large, complex applications so what I said about Eddieâs likely applies to the average user.
Okay, then sorry. It was simply what I noticed and felt while reading through the forum the last days.
I understand (and fair enough), that you try to help most users with the step to Web 2.0.
But you surely noticed, that the ones with large project, who really rely on your work, donât feel like you care to much about their problems. Thatâs all I experienced. Can be totally wrong, as I said, just wanted to mirror that to you.
True, if you decide to stick with the old IDE for the near future. And if youâre okay with, that the IDE has some serous bugs which are never going to be fixed, then everything works for you.
Luckily, when using the Web layout editor and its defaults in 19r1.1 on Linux, a number of the things that bite us for desktop apps donât show their effects. We still see the slow down caused by the copy/cut/paste underlying code in the code editor, but a number of other gotchas lay dormant.
Ok, to sum UP:
- For whatever reason, some developers still need to create/modify Web 1.0 apps. Now the only way to do so is to use version 2019r3.x. What they fear is that later on, a change on the OS may break Xojo (I mean the IDE). And my guess is that they are working on MacOS.
- If a change to an OS breaks Xojo 2019r3.x, then they have no chance using 2020rx since it lets you develop only Web 2.0 projects and updating their Web 1.0 projects to Web 2.0 can be very long.
@Geoff_Perlman Could it be possible that in a further 2020rx version it could be possible to work with a Web 1.0 project ? I know that now itâs not possible, but would it be possible in the IDE to switch Web from Web 1.0 to Web 2.0 ? That would be done by a function in the IDE where it would release Web 1.0 parts and load Web 2.0 parts or vice versa ? This way devs would get the latest fixes and also may access either Wep API.
Maybe it canât be done, but itâs worth asking .
You says most of users dont appear to have large, complex applications. This is a wrong assumption you have. How do you know that. Are you seeing everyoneâs work. This may be the reason you are caring only novice users and dont care about pro users.