Begging for another Release System

No mouse events in canvas with sending of mouseposition for example

It’s going to get better.

I’m not switching to web2.0 for existing projects but am really excited to start new ones in the future! I highly doubt web1.0 will break anytime soon.

And yes. X,Y clicks will defiantly be available in a future release, it would really surprise me to see it missing for the long term.

Derek it came up with something Geoff said about , it wasn’t my own Idea or invention. But it’s clear that it will come. After there will be the need of a rewrite. For me it doesn’t matter as long as xojo 2029 is still working until 2020 will have all functionality. But by the way I cannot understand reinventions like made with msgbox renamed to messagebox

Did you see @Tim_Parnell announcement that he implemented mouse events?

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Like I wrote

I can’t think of a single time since we released the first web framework 10 years ago that we ever had to suddenly put out a new release because apps were broken by an update to a popular web browser.

Remember that (as has already been stated) browsers are standards-based and a Xojo web app spits out HTML, JavaScript, and CSS behind these scenes just like one written directly using those technologies.

A desktop app is far more likely to suddenly “break” due to some OS update (though that too is rare) than a web app breaking due to a browser update.

The MORE likely scenario would be that you can’t yet move your app from Web Framework 1.0 to 2.0 and while adding functionality you encounter a new bug that cannot be worked around. This too seems very unlikely but theoretically it could happen.

Most users can move their apps to Web Framework 2.0 but we realize that there are a few missing functions that a some users require. We are working on adding those so all users can move their projects if and when they wish. I know that for some of you, you’re feeling caught in the middle and that’s understandable. I think the risk of their being a bug you can’t workaround prior to being able to move to Web Framework 2.0 is very low but should it happen, we are here to help you figure out a solution.

Keep in mind that some won’t and probably should not move their apps. If I had a large web app that was working fine and was likely to reach the end of its life in the next 5 years, moving it to Web Framework 2.0 would not be an attractive option. However, if I didn’t know how long it would be in use and liked some of the benefits of Web Framework 2.0, I’d be considering it.

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@Geoff_Perlman I am not speaking about a Browser, I am speaking about the operating system. There will come the time xojo 2019r3.x will not work anymore and exactly that moment is extremely dangerous for me cause I can not move my Apps. Because I have to take care that my customers will have their apps I can not count on a one way ticket. I have to have all over the time the option that this can not be happened. Please understand that because of this I will not be happy to stay on 2019r32 what is not updated anymore.
The situation would be different if there would be the functionality in 2020 needed for me and many others. There is no chance when you are in a regulated environment to decide to develop with an old tool what is not supported anymore. That’s Software development rules not made by me, made by the technical standards. It is really complex to setup a software if it is not supported anymore as the future development environment when in the same time I have to say that there is no chance to climb up the hill because the manufacturer was decidsing different. When - and it will be so - this is the case I have no chance to stay with xojo, my only chance is to rewrite the entire applications on a new plattform, still supported.
If you would ever have a technical audit of fda ion your house you would know what I am speaking about. And the same you will have for Aviation Software and other technical Software developments. There is a small part of Software you can even than develop.

That’s why I am fighting for a release system with further supporting the old version, in this case 2019, until the new version is ready for production. To push out 2020R1 as production Version made for us more than one problem. Biggest ones you know byself. One I found out today, I can not move my Webserver-Applications cause there is no CGI in xojo anymore. So, what are you thinking about industrial developers under authorized control, can they do what they want to or do they have to follow the rules given by law? I guess we will on the same line: we have to follow the law.

My complaining is not because I want or like to rant. It is because it makes a really big pile of money worthless. Until now it was working, from now on not anymore. And this I need a way out. And no, it is not helping that you are calculating chances. If Apple changes bigger parts in their OS, 2019 it automaticaly at its end. And we cannot deliver. Same with Microsoft.

Hello Geoff,

It’s still a bit daring to say that. I read on Xojo’s blog that it took a whole day’s work to convert Eddie’s Electronic to version 2. A whole day for a tiny “3 functions” app.

There is already a professional user who converted a big web app here? With a lot of pages, big use of webSDK, etc? This is a real question, not irony. More importantly, how much did it cost?

Because one working day is 500 euros. One to two months of work to do the conversion, and especially with all the work of new tests, exchanges with customers who will send a lot of questions because some things will have changed, new tests again, new bugs, new releases, new communication with the customer, etc., it’s a lot of money. And a lot of delay for all the features that our customers are already waiting for.

Maybe Dana could send a survey to the business users? Like “Are you currently selling a web app to customers?”, “If so, have you started to study how long it will take you to convert the App with the new framework?”, “Are you satisfied with the new features/conversion cost ratio?”.

I won’t bet that HTTP 1.0, among others, will still be accepted by web browsers for a long time to come… Security requirements are increasing much faster than 10 years ago. But I’m not a specialist, I hope I’m wrong.

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That what @olivierV says!

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Eddie’s doesn’t have a lot of screens but there’s a plenty of code for handling database operations and UI that would not be duplicated in a larger app. So I don’t think you can judge an app by the number of layouts it has. Updating the layouts was the fastest part. If Eddie’s had 20 more layouts, that might have added an hour to two to the process.

I work at an university and we license software products for our research (database driven, for aquiring and processing data). Every 2 to 3 years there are new major releases of the software products and the new versions are not backwards compatible (because the database schema changed). The options the software vendors give us are:

  1. Upgrade to the new version a.s.a.p. and get the newest functions. If you encounter some bugs they will be fixed fast (there are bug-fix releases roughly every month).
  2. Keep running the old and stable version as long as you like. The old version will still get bug fixes for a limited time of 12 Months after the new version was released.

This system works very well for us. Usually we choose to wait a couple of months before we upgrade.

As far as I understand, Web 2.0 will be upgraded in the next months so that most of the currently critically missing features will be available. Maybe if Xojo would provide their customers option 2 (= continue fixing bugs in Web 1.0 for a limited time) some of currently existing conflicts could be avoided.

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@Christian_M this would release all the problems and that would be the change in release system I would beg for the entire time: do not stop to support the last release before new release is production ready because I would not have any problem if the maintenance still would be there and the version not deprecated. In this moment I could wait even until 2028 for production ready status of release 2020. It makes no problem cause I have a production ready IDE and compiler still under maintenance. That’s really needed. That’s why we pay for Software companies.

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Hi guys, I’ve seen such a long list of avatars in this Topic that I thought I should joined the party too… :grin:
I must admint I don’t really get what it is really about…beside deep problems with mouse, mouse up, mouse down…mouses events (gettin’ married ?)
(and noone yet talked about a cat…).

Since its about Release stuff and that I’ve been learning Python beside for the past two months (almost a Guru then ! :upside_down_face: :hugs:) I though…hey maybe I could place a request for a Python integration …beside the Xojo language ! :grin: …yeah, Okay, you can stop laughing by now…

If anyone understand if there could be something usefull to help solving some problems here from this other topics involving “Mouses” and “Pythons”…
hope it could be usefull (and maybe help some Minds) opening the Xojo IDE to other languages such as… Rust …or Python…!
and therefor bring another huge community of users worlwide to this Cool and Great Xojo IDE… :hugs:
my 2 cents :stuck_out_tongue:

Have a fun…and Safe… Week End ! :star_struck: :mask:

Like Einhugur’s PytonScript plugin?

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It’s going out of topic here we should close and wait what xojo is deciding

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Imho this doesn’t apply to every project. Eddie’s doesn’t use a lot of controls and its UI is very basic. If you’d have 20 more of those simple layouts, then yes, you’ll be very fast to update.

But, if your project makes a larger use of CSS, Javascript, WebStyles, nested ContainerControls the WebSDK and so on, then you probably need a day or so for just one view.

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t say, what you say is wrong. But always when I read answers from Xojo, it sounds that you don’t believe us, that the conversion will be horrific. It totaly seems to me, that you think that we’re overreacting. While this could be, it currently makes the angry mob even more angry, cause it doesn’t feel like, that we’re heard by you guys.

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This is what I “hear” amidst the noise, as well. My web apps simply can’t be converted to web 2.0 without more work that the original code required to write in the first place. NGH (not gonna happen). And, since we run the apps as standalone apps on Linux servers, it luckily doesn’t have to be done.

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I have no doubt that some people have projects that will take longer because they have more complex layouts. In fact, I’m pretty sure I said that in my blog post.

Most of our users don’t appear to have large, complex applications so what I said about Eddie’s likely applies to the average user.

Okay, then sorry. It was simply what I noticed and felt while reading through the forum the last days.

I understand (and fair enough), that you try to help most users with the step to Web 2.0.

But you surely noticed, that the ones with large project, who really rely on your work, don’t feel like you care to much about their problems. That’s all I experienced. Can be totally wrong, as I said, just wanted to mirror that to you.

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True, if you decide to stick with the old IDE for the near future. And if you’re okay with, that the IDE has some serous bugs which are never going to be fixed, then everything works for you.

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