Stockholm syndrome is overcome by acknowledging that it was a result of unintentional survival-driven behavior, and with the direct support of others in your peer group who also reject and unmask the false paradigm for what it is.
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We left xojo for Desktop because of this long time ago cause Desktop Apps we can develop with B4J as a Java plattform independent app. This makes it less painful. For Android we use anyhow B4A and for IOS B4I cause the speed xojo is correcting something is not reaching what I am expecting. When I have to change I will change to ABmaterial. This point is closely reached at the Moment where I have no choice than building up a CSS for the APPS. We use the apps for small devices witch are providing a server application witch makes the app usable. If I anyhow have to build up a solution with CSS and other Stuffs beside I decide fast to switch.
What I cannot switch are the devices on the market witch I have to support for at least from now on five years. But new developments are not happened anymore. So I will be able to cut the connections with xojo if needed.
I am afraid cause of the behavior and I am in panic that it will be at itâs end soon while there is no paying customer rest anymore.
To rewrite Apps there is not the big deal for me. My customers have to switch from Xojo to B4J/Abmaterial. They will die. Or not. In this case not my problem.
It could be so easy if xojo would change the behavior. This is the point in the middle,. the bullâs eye. Cause when changing stuffs and releasing the stiffness there could be a solution. A solution for IOS developing without local mac (Build-Server) and Android as well as for Web and Desktop.
But Xojo made everything really complex and has no connection to the users anymore.
You are not allowed to mention other competing tools in this forum so I guess it is only a matter of time until this topic will be closed again. This is how they âsolveâ these problemsâŠ
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Well call it Stockholm syndrome or whatever you want. I learned the hard way the complaining is a (life)-time killer and nothing else.
I can as well complain against all the silly changes Apple did with Catalina, but I wonât bring me forward. Xojo would probably no longer exist, if they would not have included mobile and web, though many of us donât use it all. I am very interested in web, as more and more customers are requesting it. Web 1 was nice at the beginning, but it soon turned out to be a failure, as the web technology evolved fast. Everyone was hoping for Web 2.0 and it was evident that it will be a complete rewrite from day 1 on. Since then I stopped all new developments on web1 and used php/pyhton and JS as most web developers.
Though you can do everything with these languages and some editors stuff for instance) are a pleasure working with, the split between backbone development and the frontend is time and resource consuming and there is of course a big learning curve. Frameworks are helping on this, but their consistent changes are pain in the neck as well, and often no way better than Xojoâs release management.
The first version of Web 2.0 has limitations but I can already build solutions with it. Is it perfect, nope. Will it ever give me a similar freedom than developing ânativelyâ for web, most likely it wonât. I think there is a misperception between what you use a tool for than start developing or planning what you want to do and then later realizing that your tool can not (yet) realize your dreams âŠ
Well, their living room, their rules ;-). But Iâm optimistic they wonât as long as someone is talking about Java only :-). Most of my customers will throw me out of their office if I would suggest Java, especially those who went through an oracle license review ⊠and the lifetime and release strategy of the community version is a complete disaster, and so is multiplatform development. It might be a good fit for Thorsten and any other genius in software development, but not for me.
I was not simply complaining, I was actively suggesting and soliciting real world tangible solutions after clearly defining the problem. There is a difference.
Apple Computer Inc. was 90 days from collapse (mismanagement for managed decline) before the right man with the right plan turned it back into the most valuable company ever. Recovery is possible, but only if actual solutions are discussed.
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Good - thank you, Iâm working with the solution in the meantime.
The world runs on it but I understand you are not a fan. For Android it is still the most used (41% vs 6% for Kotlin). If only Xojo could do half of what can be done with Java, everyone would be a very happy camper here. And the iOS part he is talking about compiles to native code just like Xojos.
Waw, just waw⊠
Outstanding! If you are satisfied with your purchase and are deriving value from it, then there is little benefit for you to continue to engage in discourse with those who are obviously not. Nobody puts stock in fanboys if they have personal, first hand knowledge that contradicts the party line.
Enough is enough, I read his feedback cases and many, many threads here about the same(!) topic. And I donât think it is helpful to conclude âI will be leaving nowâ, âno problem for me, as I can easily do it with XYâ. Hence my question: ok, whatâs the issue then? Move on ⊠never feed the troll.
Letâs move this back on-topic and avoid personal attacks. If it continues to devolve, it will be closed, and nobody wants that.
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âHeâ is not the problemâŠ
Yes, OPs delivery, incessant complaining and lack of detail are all very annoying, I stipulate that. But he is not wrong and the rest of us are intelligent discussing the systemic issues that are at the root of the problems, and how to deal with them.
I think your post should be the accepted answer as it summaries the real problem and gives possible solutions. (suggestion)
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I wholeheartedly agree⊠donât derail and deviate from the core issues at hand (customer relations and severe and systemic product deficiencies). You know you are over the target when the ban-hammer comes out.
I am not threatening to ban anyone. I said the discussion will be closed if it canât stay on topic and all participants avoid personal attacks.
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Ok, then I stand corrected. Sorry.
Say nothing is not bringing you one step forward. Using Java is not the best alternative but I need an alternative where we do not have to do experiments for documented functions. Well, maybe you have no problem with the way they are doing it.
For IOS I am getting IOS binary not JAVA by the way. Xojo would be thousands of times nicer. Exactly thatâs the point. I LOVE XOJO no question. And I would be really in love if it would be able to do the stuff it claims it can do. But this situation we have not at this time.
Why I was speaking about other Solutions? Because of the problems I am inside. Maybe they bann this thread from this forum. But this will not be a solution for anything. It will be only an optical polishment.
Like Web 2.0. At the moment it is only an optical polishment. But itâs not clean behind, to many stuffs are undone. So if a product is released when half ready the product is making problems in the market. Who will have the best effect from clearing exactly this point? Yeah, xojo byself because the customers are coming back.
But the way it is going now will not work. This is bringing me to the point: I do not want XOJO to die. I want it shiny and bright, powerful and working well.
So: if there will be a Change in this Way witch costs Money, I will pay, I am with the xojo Company because I Love the concept. But the conditions around have to be so that I can release commercial Software with it. Proven Software, proven by FDA, TĂV and so on. Because it is for medical devices.
And the topic was Thorsten complaining (again) about a particular issue, which for sure is causing him a big pain! I acknowledge that, as much as I acknowledge as well that the communication from Xojo might improve here and there. But I read his feedback case: [https://xojo.com/issue/61525 ](https://xojo.com/issue/61525) and I read Xojoâs response and have to conclude that Xojo is right here:
Thorsten, I know youâre having a tough time with this, but sometimes it really is helpful to get information from the person that is reporting the problem. A video, for instance, sometimes shows us a key piece of information that the user neglected to mention in their reproduction steps. We ask for these things because we really do want to fix the issue you are reporting, and sometimes that means putting in a little more effort.
In this case, because you refused to supply any more information, the case was closed.
I understand both: the customer being frustrated but as well Xojo, being frustrated as they canât help in these circumstances. And it is pretty frustrating for all of us reading about this particular issue in many threads, isnât it?
As big as an issue might be, it doesnât help by flooding a forum with it. As much as it is not helpful repeating again and again that Web 2.0 is missing functionality compared to Web 1.0 It is an early release and Xojo said there will be more to come. When will it come? Who knows, we are all long enough into this game, that we know the companyâs philosophy: itâs ready, when it will be ready. Iâm not a fanboy but a realist.
Maybe it does. Because if we all deceide to vote with our wallet, it may cause even more damage to Xojo then an open discussion. Even if it sometimes is painfull to read/follow those discussions. 
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Nothing against a good discussion, otherwise I would not contribute ;-). But it doesnât really help in repeating the same issue everywhere, does it? And it doesnât help by not delivering the requested information. If my customer tells me about an issue in my product, but doesnât want to deliver further information we both have a problem âŠ