38303 - The note name is si, not ti ! (pdf)

To change The Sound of Music ?

Is “missing” information in a comment a bug? Do robots dream of electric sheep? Such existential questions can really never be answered.

Not robots, just androids :stuck_out_tongue:

YES, only if the reader fall in a mistaken understanding.

If the user understand correctly / cannot wrongly understand the information, this cannot be a bug.

Of course, I prefer a comlete information to be sure I understand correctly (having read so bad documentation on these last 35 years…)

[quote=170364:@Massimo Valle]Sorry but this is wrong.
I know in USA TI and SO as used instead of SI and SOL, but it’s still wrong.
[/quote]

An old thread, but…

Wrong? No.

“Right” or “wrong” in this context is a lot more complex. In Anglo-North America “So/Sol” are both accepted spellings (though they are both pronounced “so”) and “Ti” are correct. Perfectly correct. Read Ulrich’s post, it is a complex set of systems. We haven’t even started to discuss fixed-do (used widely in Anglo-North America) versus moveable-do (used widely in East Asia, Latinate cultures and Eastern Europe, among other places).

Then there is the chromatic systems which have been overlayed the older diatonic systems where there is a very different meaning to “Si”. Here’s a chromatic scale:

Do - Di - Re - Ri - Mi - Fa - Fi - Sol - Si - La - Li - Ti - Do.

“Si” is the chromatically raised 5th scale degree. (Leading-tone to the relative minor key).

Then there is the whole issue of minor keys - some systems use a “La” based minor and others use a “Do” based minor. Both are perfectly legitimate Natural Minor Scales:

La - Ti - Do - Re - Mi -Fa - So - La
Do - Re - Me - Fa - So - Le - Te - Do

And on it goes… I won’t even get into the number system/s.

One could say that “Venedig” is wrong… (and it is wrong - ask any Italian). :wink: On the other hand, the Italians are always mispelling Venice… go figure. :confused:

You say colour, I say color…

What is important is the music.

[quote=213239:@Michel Bujardet]You say colour, I say color…

What is important is the music.[/quote]

[pedant mode on]

Yes, the music is the important thing for the listener/creator, but these other details are very important for professionals, teachers, students, etc.

In software many end users are using ‘numbers’ - programmers need to deal with ‘ints’, ‘doubles’, etc. Not a trivial difference I would say.

[/pedant mode off]

BTW - It’s ‘colour’ here in Canada (Kanada), but a few kilometres to the south they spell it without the ‘u’.

The example is based on the Sound of Music and the song not the notes for music instruction.
Thats been said several times on the thread.
So regardless of what professionals, teachers & instructors might prefer the sound track is the definitive reference for this example.

http://www.metrolyrics.com/doremi-maria-and-the-children-lyrics-the-sound-of-music.html
Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do

Any further issues take it up with Rodgers & Hammerstein :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote=213233:@Doug Smith]An old thread, but…

Wrong? No.

“Right” or “wrong” in this context is a lot more complex. In Anglo-North America “So/Sol” are both accepted spellings (though they are both pronounced “so”) and “Ti” are correct. Perfectly correct. Read Ulrich’s post, it is a complex set of systems. We haven’t even started to discuss fixed-do (used widely in Anglo-North America) versus moveable-do (used widely in East Asia, Latinate cultures and Eastern Europe, among other places).

[omissis]

One could say that “Venedig” is wrong… (and it is wrong - ask any Italian). :wink: On the other hand, the Italians are always mispelling Venice… go figure. :/[/quote]

I’m not discussing about the “accepted” spellings.
The right names are Do, Re, Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Si and they have a very precise origin. See for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_notation

And about Venedig, or Venice, or Venezia (or even Venetia), I don’t need to ask, since I’m Italian :wink:

In a globalized world, pretends of “being right” because of cultural tradition is largely futile. Whatever our glorious past…

@Norman Palardy - I have NO problems with the Xojo example. (It’s Julie Andrews that I have a problem with… she never returns my emails.)

Ciao Massimo! Prestissimo and appoggiatura to you. You are correct, (though as Ulrich pointed out - ‘Ut’ preceded ‘Do’).

PS: I am not trying to rustle any jimmies, it’s just that this stuff is of great personal interest. I am aware of, use, and accept many different sol-fa systems. Ultimately the only thing that counts is that people understand the system being used.

You are missing the point Michel.
Especially in a globalized world, it’s very important to point out where things come from and the right name for them.
Or we risk flattening all.

My grandfather left me many things, and one very important thing I learnt from him is: “Always name things with the right word”.
The danger of using wrong names goes from misinterpretation to confusion. And more.

[quote=213254:@Doug Smith]
Ciao Massimo! Prestissimo and appoggiatura to you. You are correct, (though as Ulrich pointed out - ‘Ut’ preceded ‘Do’)…[/quote]

You are right, and I believe in France “Ut” is used instead of “Do”.

Michel is correct for large parts of Europe and US/Canada: Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do. In France is starts with Ut instead of Do. In Italy it is as you say: Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Do.

Doug very rightly refers to “sol-fa systems”. In matters of terminology, what is important is precision. Not form.

For better or worse, terminology evolves. It is as natural as life. We no longer speak Latin. French stopped being the exclusive language of diplomacy a while ago.

But hey, if Sol and Si are part of your identity, I would hate hurting your cultural sensitivity. Be happy with your belief.

Michel is correct for large parts of Europe and US/Canada: Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do. In France is starts with Ut instead of Do. In Italy it is as you say: Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Do.

Enough pedantry for today ; ignoring this thread now…

Its a code example that in the comments quotes the notes from the Sound of Music.
Its not a musical instruction primer.
The system really is completely irrelevant in this example.
An excellent example of nit picking.

Sorry to contradict you but this is not entirely true.
In large part of Europe is used C, D, E, F, G, A, B or C, D, E, F, G, A, H

All using of “So” and “Ti” are mangled versions of “Sol” and “Si” when anglo-saxon people try to use the Latin note names, especially in solfege.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_note

Lilliputian war ?