2017 R2.1 Flickering

As i’ve just downloaded the point release it seems it’s flickering, and it’s so bad the whole ide is just unusable.
This point release is by far the worst (for now) i’ve ever used.

I’m on MacOS, opened the IDE 2017 R2.1

Scroll in the editor; flickers to half or 3/4th grey screen and back to normal.
Scroll in the project list (left side); flickers so bad i can’t say how it looks.

I’m going to report this in FB, but how is this even possible? Doesn’t xojo use the IDE themselfs?
Doesn’t seem to be tested or noticed by anyone from xojo?

Seeing as the IDE is written in the Xojo IDE I’m fairly sure they use the Xojo IDE. On Windows I have found the code editor to be slow on occasion, but rebooting seems to fix that problem where restarting the IDE does not. Perhaps you just need to reboot your machine?

I’ve spend hours and hours to have my Windows app scrollable controls less flickering. With tricks and compromises I have it acceptable now using 2016R3. (no Direct2D).
If I see the flickering of the Xojo IDE 2017R2.1, then I know that this should be fully unacceptable for me to have it in my own product.
And sometimes, in my naughty dreams, I ask myself the question if the Xojo IDE for Windows shouldn’t have been build in C++ rather than Xojo itself.

Unrealistically, it matters a little if the Xojo IDE flickers… the main issue is ‘does our delivered app’?

But this post is worrying because

We’re pretty used to hearing about this on Windows… what on earth could cause it on a MAC?

Humans get used to creaky doors.

I do agree with Joost Rongen about creating the IDE in C++. It is a good point that now Mac user experience the flicker too which we have to accept on the Windows side for years. Do you now understand the frustration of Xojo windows users?

Despite being frustrate with this nasty unaddressed problem, I still like to use Xojo. It is a good powerfull development platform which deserves much better than this flickering.

Please Xojo inc, if I can give you one good advice. Write your IDE in C++ like Joost Rongen suggested. It was a nice promotional stunt writing your own IDE in Xojo but there is a hugh price Windows users paid. Also make more work about Quality testing which obviously on this moment is very much flawed (if we see these results, is there any quality testing done or is there released in a hurry?).

In the present condition your Xojo tool looks very amateurish which is a shame because it has such high potential if Xojo inc was not so stuborn and ignorant to this serious flickering problem.

Xojo inc engineers are very skilled and experienced. I don’t blame them for the flickering problems, which partly is not completely their fault. But I think it is time for a change.

Please keep on building the IDE with Xojo. I assume this will help to eliminate flicker issues over time, because you use the tool you‘re selling, more often.

Agreed, but Norman please develop on Windows - the worst case scenario - toss that fruit thingy & get a real machine :slight_smile:

@Sascha S :
Can you explain how creating the IDE in xojo will eliminate flicker? The flickering is now more than a decade on Windows, is that not prove enough that your request is not going to work?

I have no problem and like you do, I also prefer the IDE written in Xojo on the main condition that there will be under no circumstance be any flickering. Because it took so long, I think it is better to create the Xojo IDE in another tool (C++) without any flickering.

[quote=350560:@Chris Verberne]@Sascha S :
Can you explain how creating the IDE in xojo will eliminate flicker? The flickering is now more than a decade on Windows, is that not prove enough that your request is not going to work?

I have no problem and like you do, I[/quote]

Working with C may eliminate flicker in the IDE but not in your Apps

I think Xojo inc ignored the flickering problem for so long on Windows, now it slammed hard in their face now its appear on Mac too.

Xojo has to eliminate this flickering problem on all platforms for once and for all.

What happens in r2.1 is the result of being ignorant to a repeatedly reported very serious problem. I can only hope it will get xojo’s full attention now.

@Sascha S :
Agreed with you. The more reason to solve this problem NOW!

FWW:
I installed Xojo 2017r2.1 on my iMac 5K, iMac (old running OSX10.6), MBPr and MacBook Air.
I do not see any flickering on those systems.

In fact, it is about ‘impossible’ the Xojo UI would flicker on macOS. macOS (and OSX) uses double buffering by default. Flickering shouldn’t/cannot happen.

But for Windows Xojo 2017r2.1 is indeed a disaster. It’s is not very usable Imo.
I mostly code on my Mac systems and do some final tweaking on Windows for the Windows builds.

If r2.1 for Windows doesn’t get improved soon, we will definitely lose Xojo for Windows folks.
Working with 2.1 IDE on Windows is not funny due to often slow response on typing, lack of refreshing the debuglog panel, and of course the flickering.
But even worse, users of our Windows desktop apps, mention that it got worse after introduction of new version (move to Direct2D as we know) . Of course it’s important to follow the trend, but for the time being it’s experienced as a decline of user experience when it comes to Xojo desktop apps for windows.
As said probably 10 times already, for this reason I am still building with 2016R3. It’s a scandal I need to.
And second, it’s quite absurd how many treads in this forum still go about these topics. We all on Windows get so tired of dealing with it, that for the time being it doesn’t matter what new features, platforms, or whatever is on our wish list. First, solve the long long pending issues, no matter it takes.
And last but not least: yes I am angry this time.

@Joost Rongen :

Again I agree completely with you. I could not have said it better.

Thank you very much for supporting the flickering problem on Windows. Much appreciated!

I’d like to know if others have the same on macOS (Sierra) using 2017 R2.1.

2017 R2 isn’t in the archives, so can’t seem to download it.

[quote=350581:@Derk Jochems]I’d like to know if others have the same on macOS (Sierra) using 2017 R2.1.

2017 R2 isn’t in the archives, so can’t seem to download it.[/quote]

No. Tested on Sierra+High Sierra with MacBook Pro 15 Retina Late 2013, with and without external non-Retina Screen.

Do you have a screencast showing this on macOS?

I’d like to do so, how can i?

Thanks, i’m beginning to think it’s my graphics or so trying to fail on me.

Start QuickTime player -> File -> new screen recording

Lord no
This is how it used to be prior to 2006 and the problem was that because the engineers used the IDE so little for their day to day work they rarely saw the issues users experienced
Been there done that and do not want to go back there
Having to “eat your own dog food” is a good thing for everyone