[quote=14916:@Joe Ranieri]The part I quoted:
The Cocoa framework’s progress had no effect on the release cycle. Cocoa had been improving with each release done in a 90-day update cycle and would have continued to be done in that manner until it was complete. As Norman said, it was the time taken to get the new IDE shipped that delayed the cycle.[/quote]
I hear you. And I think I fully understand you. And I fully commend you for all the really good work done in Xojo. I fully understand now there are different development teams , each with different tasks, schedules, etc. Now I get it, completely. But please let me give you one point of view, from a user that doesn’t know all your individual teams, members, etc. Can you see how from my point of view, with very little apriori knowledge of all these, I see one massive endeavor which yields one new IDE with massive improvements for the Cocoa platform. And I know (or hope anyways) some similar (not equal, but some measure) effort will also be seen applied to the other platform. Perception is a wonderful thing.
Anyways, I get where your coming from. You guys do some really great work. Just keep in mind the perception part. And thanks for the candid responses.
We’re very aware of the perception and it’s one reason why we’ve been contemplating a “.Net” based framework for Windows.
It would allow us to take advantage of some things that would be really nice - so we could kill flicker once & for all.
And there are a host of things that Win32 doesn’t make possible that ,Net would.
As I said a .Net framework would likely be the “Cocoa” sized project for Windows.
We’d just like to get LLVM, 64 bit, and a few of those other bits off our plates before tackling yet another huge one.
At least well underway on those.
I’d like to agree on all of these things, but it is hard occasionally. I put three years of work into making the Cocoa framework be shippable, so it’s discouraging when people say it shouldn’t have been a priority or took too long (which, admittedly, is partly true).
For what it’s worth, there is one major improvement for Windows users in 2013r1: the code for service applications got rewritten and it actually works now. Previously you could get spurious StackOverflowExceptions or user code running on multiple threads at once, which is really really bad.
Andrew Lambert, 14 hours ago, wrote:
The Windows IDE (Xojo, RS, or RB) has always trailed behind the usability of the Mac IDE. Most of the Xojo, Inc developers are Mac users, or so it seems, so naturally OS X gets the lions share of their attention (look at all the work they did to add Cocoa support while I’ve heard nothing about adding support for WinRT; Xojo has had built-in support for AppleScript for years but there has never even been a discussion about doing something with Windows Scripting Host, etc.) A developer will scratch their own itches first.
It does get old to see Windows take a back seat to OS X every single time, but it ceases to surprise.
Cocoa vs WinRT
You compare Apple and Oranges here. Compare Cocoa to Windows 8 instead.
AppleScript
AppleScript support have not been improved (modified, bug remove, anything) in years.
A developer will scratch their own itches first.
You are right: regardless of the OS, a developer will scratch their own itches first.
Now, sit into an OS X developer seat and try to look from its eyes: your answer will be: Windows gets this and that and while we are waiting about in the OS X platform !
No, Platform war is a bad idea. You dont even (in that post) tell what feature you miss - beside WinRT, and I do not know what WinRT is - from Windows 8 (the regular Windows as OS X is the regular Macintosh OS).
Can someone explain why Windows graphics invariably show flicker? I have noticed this, and all my Windows users complain about it. I have tried all sorts of buffering to get rid of it, and have failed. I note that applications generated using 2007 R4 exhibit less flicker than those generated using 2012 R4.3, but both still have significantly more flicker than Mac OSX apps.
So what is it about Windows that causes the flicker?
Only Xojo can say for sure but this comment from a Microsoft technical article seems likely to be related:
In addition, GDI functions under Vista and newer are rendered on the CPU rather than the GPU.
Xojo vs. Xojo
OS X buffers the screen. You’ll never see each control draw individually. Win32 draws everything on the fly, one by one. .Net does some buffering, so that may be an avenue for Xojo, as much as I dislike it.
[quote=14991:@Emile Schwarz]>Cocoa vs WinRT
You compare Apple and Oranges here. Compare Cocoa to Windows 8 instead.[/quote]
You traded one orange for another. Cocoa is the Apple framework equivalent to Microsoft’s .NET.
Bob
Youre right, but one day Cocoa will be the only way on OS X. At that moment I will take my original orange back ;-:).
[quote=15220:@Emile Schwarz]>Bob
Youre right, but one day Cocoa will be the only way on OS X. At that moment I will take my original orange back ;-:).[/quote]
But there will always be another framework down the road. On any platform.