Whilst Xojo cloud and the integration with the Xojo IDE is a great idea. I am struggling to get my head around "What are the real benefits
of paying for Xojo Cloud and using the service. (Large Server Option in particular)
It seems rather expensive when comparing other cloud VPS options.
Xojo Cloud Server (Large)
2GB of RAM
80GB of SSD storage
80GB of Outgoing Bandwidth (incoming is free)
400Mbps Network Throughput
2 Virtual CPUs
backup
149,00
Per month
Serverbite Cloud Server
4GB of RAM
100GB of SSD storage
1TB of Outgoing Bandwidth (incoming is free)
800Mbps Network Throughput
2 CPU Cores
L3/L7 firewall
backup
You’ll have to make sure the VPS is secure by setting up the firewall and stuff too.
We currently use an ECS (Elastic Cloud Server). I have full control over its hardware (CPU cores, RAM, bandwidth OS). I can just drag some sliders and se the speed increase. But I pay for it on an hourly basis so it can be cheap or expensive
Plus, no one is forced to use Xojo Cloud Services. Just use any alternative which give you what you really need. And IF someday Xojo may see that they are FAR to pricey (just MY opinion) , they may drop their prices?
[quote=78388:@Lee Page]Whilst Xojo cloud and the integration with the Xojo IDE is a great idea. I am struggling to get my head around "What are the real benefits
of paying for Xojo Cloud and using the service. (Large Server Option in particular)
It seems rather expensive when comparing other cloud VPS options.[/quote]
It is not always as simple. What are you to do when it simply would not work ? This forum is full of contributions about all sorts of Web apps deployment difficulties. As anything computer, problems can be solved with some amount of patience and good assistance here and from your host provider. But that takes time and frustration. Xojo Cloud is a good solution if one does not want to get involved in too much host technicalities.
Last year I decided to use web apps for my online delivery system and proceeded with my faithful VPS I had used for 8 years just to find out downloads where truncated, so files became unusable. Host support was friendly and adequate for PHP, but totally inept for Xojo : they did not even know what it was. After trying all sorts of solutions that did not work, I turned to Phillips Zedalis at http://1701software.com/ and found the best service I had hoped for, as Phillip is a member of this forum, and provides friendly and efficient support.
I would not recommend jumping in the unknown with Xojo web apps just because a VPS is less expensive. Any serious application requires being assured that your host will actually understand what Xojo web apps are and provide support accordingly. Also Xojo web apps are rather demanding on resources, and you do not want your cheapie VPS to freak or break down because of that.
Xojo Cloud and its one click deployment is probably perfect for people who do not want to be involved in setting files permissions and tracking CPU usage or setting .htaccess. But indeed, other solutions exists that work. I can attest to it.
Setting up your own server involves more than just paying for hosting. Configuring and maintaining it takes time and experience. If you don’t have both of those in abundance, then Xojo Cloud should be pretty attractive.
In terms of prices, there is nearly no room for Xojo to decrease. They are priced nearly at cost.
This is kind of a funny topic though. Just last night I was wrote on Twitter “switching hosts is only slightly less terrible than setting yourself on fire.” I was looking at switching VPS providers myself, and realizing that putting in a few days of setup time is not a pleasant experience.
Also, most providers give you old software. For example, enable PostgreSQL on a cPanel server and you get a version that is nearly 10 years old. You get versions of Apache and OpenSSL that cannot achieve an “A” rating on the Qualys SSL test. You have to put in a lot of time and expertise to get that server built and configured securely.
Xojo Cloud does this stuff for you. This is a value that is nearly impossible to measure.
Here’s a thought for you. Remember the zero day OpenSSL bug that was revealed this week? We had it patched on everyones servers in less than 15 hrs from when the story broke, and the only thing you’d need to do is reissue your SSL certificate. And we notified everyone that needed to do that.
As a Xojo web app developer, Xojo Cloud is very appealing to me for three simple and very important reasons:
Once my VPS is selected, one-click in the IDE compiles, deploys and launches my web app in a browser. This can’t get any simpler!
All maintenance is hands-off so my effort to keep my VPS up-to-date is zero. This can’t get any easier!
The security model is robust to the point of being paranoid, which is what we need as the number of threats continue to increase along with their level of sophistication. This can’t get any safer!
Managing publicly exposed servers requires ever evolving skills and never ending effort. Xojo Cloud removes those requirements. The little bit extra that they charge for my peace of mind is well worth it. If I factor in the time I save each month then Xojo Cloud is a bargain!
Greg, Travis and the rest of the team working on Xojo Cloud are smarter than me and put a tremendous amount of time into maintaining and evolving it. If you’re smarter than they are and have the time to burn on maintaining and securing your publicly exposed servers then roll your own or use another VPS provider. I would rather focus on the other aspects of my business.
??? now I am very confused that is a general Rackspace service not exclusive to Xojo
From rackspace
Part of our Fanatical Support promise is to ensure the security and health of your systems. It is of the utmost importance to us. So when the entire Linux Community, including Rackspace, was notified yesterday of the Heartbleed vulnerability within OpenSSL (CVE-2014-0160), the encryption software found in many Linux systems, we began plans to proactively patch your affected servers where we could.
I also have a non Xojo rackspace private VPS that was patched by rackspace themselves for openssl Heartbleed vulnerability within a few hours.
I agree not Xojo
Standard expensive rackspace pricing. I am surprised that Xojo didn’t manage to get a better deal.
[quote=78388:@Lee Page]Whilst Xojo cloud and the integration with the Xojo IDE is a great idea. I am struggling to get my head around "What are the real benefits of paying for Xojo Cloud and using the service. (Large Server Option in particular)
[/quote]
You can certainly find cheaper hosting - thats not the question though.
You can manage everything on your own.
Firewall configuration. SELinux configuration. And skip one click deployment.
And then you can deal with the deployment and support issues with your VPS provider when you ask for 32 bit libraries to be installed. And anything else your VPS might require for your web app to work.
These all cost you your time and IF you place no value on that then yes you can find cheaper services.
But IF you are doing this work for a client & billing it to them then it all adds up. And when your client asks “why are you messing around with the server for so many hours a month” and “how can we avoid that since it seems to be an ongoing thing” then you’ll see what the value of Xojo cloud is for you & your clients.
Or IF you’re doing it to run a business on the web then the care & feeding of the VPS is probably NOT your primary business. Something else is. And all this is just a distraction from that business. So it costs you your time.
We offer the service to make it easier to deal with the issues everyone else has noted.
We’re not forcing anyone to use our service.
The pricing is what it is.
With all due respect. RS/Xojo could have been 64bit a long time ago. I don’t know maybe zero support for running on a 64bit linux OS was by design (hence Xojo cloud and the 32bit lib dependency issues)
Xojo pricing appears to mirror that of Rackspace standard pricing.
Everything appears to be the same other than from what I can see is that Xojo has a custom linux image/kernel with 32bit libs installed, SELinux “on” and the IDE simply just has some STP to upload a build to the VPS.
I like Xojo as an IDE great product what I do not like so much is the marketing spin and bullsh*t.
[quote=78475:@Lee Page]Everything appears to be the same other than from what I can see is that Xojo has a custom linux image/kernel with 32bit libs installed, SELinux “on” and the IDE simply just has some STP to upload a build to the VPS.
[/quote]
That’s just simply not true. The amount of time and resources involved in everything- including all of the R&D on the security, adaptive firewall, and maintenance is well beyond what even Rackspace provides- and they even say so themselves. I’m not seeing anything new here from anyone on this thread so I think it is time to wrap it up.
Would be happy to host with Xojo Cloud if pricing came down a bit
Norman