It is way easier to lose customers than to gain new ones. Especially when the slightest criticism from faithful users is met by annoyance.
After a year hoping, then hoping, and now been more or less downright rejected as not being able to deal with unannounced changing priorities (!), my next project will be Swift or B4i. Sure, there will be some learning curve involved, but at least I won’t have to deal with attitude.
I would really like to have some informations of the future of xojo
I can completely understand to have also some info like “we did not implement that now because it is more complex than expected”
but I don’t like the totally no information we have.
it seems that even alpha testers don’t have any information ?
oh and I forget : you can sure keep some informations secret, from your business competitors
but please give us (the xojo pro ? ) rought roap maps for xojo
“for next release we plan to implement this and that, for coming years we will focus on that and this feature”
and I also like some surprises like the raspberry !
the pro users almost have xojo at the heart of their businness, so we need to make roadmaps for our businnesses too.
thanks.
@Michel Bujardet I had a similar feeling a couple of months ago when I needed to make a WebApp. After careful consideration I decided not to make it with Xojo (among other things, client did not like the lack of SEO and the look of the controls) so I did it in B4X. I did know B4A quite well, so the move to B4J was very easy for me. Problem is, I’m feeling so comfortable with my new environment, I’m considering doing more and more projects in B4X (although I have a huge code-base in Xojo, but now the B4X one is growing too).
And if more users start using an alternative tool ‘just-once’ and then start to like it, return to xojo and see the little progress there is made compared to others, this could become problematic for Xojo.
I think one thing Xojo seems to forget lately is that is not the big programming language it likes to portrait itself. They have a small, yet very loyal user-base. The problem with passionate people is when their ‘love’ is not returned, the reaction can be bad. I have defended Xojo many, many times and in my blog tried to show there can be done more things with Xojo than first meets the eye. Always talked very euphemistically when the subject of bugs came up.
I know Xojo does not like to hear it, but lately, looking at some of the code posted on this forum, this strongly brings back memories of the last days of VB6. One was also forced to use a lot of Declares (vbaccelerator.com was a good friend) when you wanted your app to act like a modern app should. Quoting Cho Sing Kum: ‘Cross-platform advantage? No more’. Writing a cross-platform app in Xojo nowadays needs a lot of consideration and thought. 'Ah, with declares I can make this nice feature on OSX, but no wait, what are the declares on Windows (if any)?
This is all I will say on the subject. I still have a lot of love for Xojo, and it will be a sad day for me if (when?) I finally have moved away…
[quote=243902:@Jean-Yves Pochez]but please give us (the xojo pro ? ) rought roap maps for xojo
[/quote]
A couple of weeks ago I suggested that Xojo Inc start giving us a roadmap that gives us some direction on where they are heading. I argued that putting approximate dates on these things does no good for the end-user, as they’re rarely hit and it’s no good for Xojo Inc as users apparently “beat them repeatedly” with them. But a roadmap, without promising dates, would give us some insight as to the direction of the product.
Despite threats, they’re not going to stop talking about the future because it’s good for marketing and I fully understand that. But just give us a roadmap so we know a direction.
I think this is now clear.
That is exactly what I am talking about. For whatever reason, you try something else, and before you know it, Xojo has faded in the distance. To me iOS is the epitome of no-no. Too little, too late, no apparent effort or enthusiasm on the part of its maker for one full year, dismissive comments against customers. Is it the Peter’s principle or something else ? At some point, there are products that do more harm than good…
Xojo Web is a different story. I am a huge fan of it. And Greg is particularly supportive and fast responding. Now, SEO is a different story. Web apps are NOT web sites, and even dynamic content web sites are notoriously difficult to optimize for search engines. For my own use, I keep building sites in mostly HTML, and weave Xojo Web in when it is necessary.
We are all developers, and know how difficult it is to respect deadlines. I do not consider falling behind promises a major sin, but I do have my own imperatives. Like probably every single one here. Now the issue becomes “is Xojo the appropriate tool for my needs ?”. That question would meet a cold and rapid response, would it be any other company. But some of us have been so attached to RB/Xojo for now over a decade, it would seem legitimate to ask, before jumping on another horse. It is unfortunate that this was taken the wrong way.
I really love Xojo and the community. I also think Xojo is working hard on their own product and
it’s generally it’s not possible to satisfy every customer request.
However, what I don’t like is waiting for bug-fixes or changes which could have a great impact. You don’t really know when they will be solved. If you had a roadmap or some information on coming changes you could also plan ahead. I don’t suggest to grow user base by accommodating more platforms anymore rather making the new framework more feature rich and bug free.
From my point, the perception of Xojo outside of this forum is very little as Xojo cannot entice
professional programmers. What does Xojo offer or makes it special ?
They collect users coming from VB, some beginners or have the users which are tied to the
product as it’s their business base. As long as Xojo appearance and attitude is not like “let’s thing big” it’s a come and go with users and licenses.
I still use Xojo but have taken alternatives into consideration.
I currently develop my first application in Xojo for iOS, it’ll be a ERP application.
It would be really nice to have more and enhanced controls included, many things i solve (thx to the iOSKit) with declares. I think the idea to develope for iOS with Basic is great and there could be more users if Xojo just enhance the possibilties for iOS. So rapid and simple you cannot develope with Xcode or another tool for iOS.
I would be also willing to pay additional for a plus-version which delivers this extra controls.
[quote=243923:@Marcel Baumberger]
I would be also willing to pay additional for a plus-version which delivers this extra controls.[/quote]
Likewise, actually. I want more Xojo in my projects and less third-party libraries, plugins and workarounds.
iOS support is rudimentary for sure, but I see promise with it. I have an app on the app store I fumbled through with Objective C, but I’d have had much more fun writing it in XOJO (were XOJO complete enough to do so). I’m keeping my fingers crossed for XOJO.
I’ve message you twice, but the conversations have disappeared each time. Not sure what is going on there. I was trying to get help implementing the applicationDidEnterBackground and other appDelegate events that don’t appear to be in iOSKit
Can I just say… &^%&%& new framework?
I probably would have invested some time in iOS if Xojo hadn’t changed the language.
the problem is… the missing controls are not “extra controls”, they are a basic (no pun) part of the standard UIKit for iOS
[quote=243938:@Jeff Tullin]Can I just say… &^%&%& new framework?
I probably would have invested some time in iOS if Xojo hadn’t changed the language.[/quote]
Have a look at the wrapper I created precisely so I could use existing code :
https://github.com/Mitchboo/XojoiOSWrapper
It provides about 30 different classic methods syntax and functions. In iOS where classic framework is not available, it is a sensible way to keep your programming habits. And since it uses Text and overloads methods that use String, it can be used as is in Desktop and Web as well (except declares of course).
The new framework is not the scare you think it is.
What is scary is to try and climb Mount Everest in baby’s shoes.
Your wrapper is an excellent piece of work. My disappointment is that it was necessary at all.
When I cant type Msgbox “Hello World” in a Basic language, something has gone wrong somewhere.
I did Ben Nevis. (Best we have in Britain).
Going up is OK. Coming down wrecks your knees. 
That is exactly how the wrapper started. So I could write MsgBox "Hello World" and be done with it.
That said, to be fair, and apart from the strange disappearance of MsgBox, most of the new framework is more a question of using the good old dot notation than anything.
And the Text type. Which is yet another debate. While I understand very well why it is much better, I find it a bit extreme to have removed it altogether.
While we communicated about the new 64-bit beta and Raspberry Pi support we were delivering last year- in turn- we did not communicate well about what that meant for iOS improvements.
We completely understand the desire expressed on this thread to have more core functionality out of the box. We want that too. While 2016r1 has already been announced as being about HiDPI/Retina support- we can tell you that the next major release following is focused on iOS.
[quote=243968:@Travis Hill]While we communicated about the new 64-bit beta and Raspberry Pi support we were delivering last year- in turn- we did not communicate well about what that meant for iOS improvements.
We completely understand the desire expressed on this thread to have more core functionality out of the box. We want that too. While 2016r1 has already been announced as being about HiDPI/Retina support- we can tell you that the next major release following is focused on iOS.[/quote]
Thanks for the input Travis. I don’t think there are any “haters” in this thread - quite the opposite, we care passionately.
Yeah, I agree. It’s far better to have people care enough to constructively criticize than not care enough to say anything!
I remember an article in the german pc-magazine “c’t” where they wrote about Xojo and the development in iOS. They wrote very positiv about, but also they mention that there are missing many controls.
So, I looking forward for the next major release ;-).
is that the article I wrote?
I wrote once an article. But it should be balanced, so showing both good and bad things.
c’t? I remember one in “Mac and I” but basically the same house.