Weird Xojo behavior

Hello all. Starting with 2023 R4 (and continuing with the latest pre-release build), I am experiencing a disrupting behavior with Xojo (and Xojo only). When I select code or try to open a webpage in the IDE, Xojo seems to lose track of things. It starts to flicker wildly, and is unresponsive all the while. I can stop that behavior by clicking the mouse outside of the Xojo screen. Notice in the attached video that I select the item pgCompetition, Xojo goes crazy, I click outside to shift the OS focus elsewhere, and Xojo ends up placing focus on a different item than selected (Resources).edit: no. an mp4 file cannot be uploaded to the forum… This is random, it could have been something else. The same thing happens when selecting code. It goes crazy, I click outside of the Xojo IDE, and some other code is selected. This usually happens after working for some time. If I close Xojo and restart it, it generally works fine for a short while. But not always. If the UIstate has Xojo on an open webpage (not code), Xojo will often remain unresponsive. A restart of the IDE is necessary. On the second or third retry, it starts fine.

The computer is a Core I7 10th gen running Windows 11 23R2. 32 GB RAM, a dedicated 1 TB SSD for development. The video adapter is a GTX 1660 (I don’t need the horsepower, but it does have connectors for my 3 screens…)

I checked the usual: video driver uninstall and reinstall (new release), mouse driver reinstall (tested with a different mouse also), chkdsk, dism. I ran memtest86 from a CD. Only the quicker test, though. I did not find anything wrong with the PC. Which does not mean nothing is wrong with it… So the question is, Am I the only one with this issue? if so, then it is likely an issue with my computer that I have not yet found. If not then suppose that a feedback ticket is the next step. At the moment, I have a short list of working hypotheses: A Windows update broke something. Xojo introduced a new bug with the 2023R4 optimizations. My PC is sick somehow.

Regardless, any suggestion to uncover the root cause is welcome!

Thanks. LD

I used to have 3 screens using display-port monitors. I did experience various display issues, not exactly as you described though. I would look for the solution in that area. I have changed to one gigantic display and all is well.

Indeed Frank, I did think of that option, too. If all else fails, perhaps it is something to do. In the mean time, I will disconnect two screens, then one screen and see whether the issue is resolved this way. Thank you for the idea.

Xojo as a really long history of blaming the os for their problems. Even if the workaround works, it is still a xojo problem.

Try creating an issue and upload the video there.

As workaround, try launching the xojo IDE with compatibility flags.

Hum, I don’t see an attached video.

I am not blaming Xojo just yet. It is surprising that the issue happens only with Xojo so far, but it could be a coincidence. I created a VM with Windows 11 and I am in process of updating the configuration to match my desktop PC. If Xojo works fine there, there is a good chance that something is wrong with my PC. Creating an issue is definitely one of the next steps, but if I am the only one with the issue, then the issue is likely on my computer and I need to look a bit harder.

there is not one… I could not upload the mp4.

I experienced what you described also on a laptop Intel i5 10th gen. with 8 cores and 8Gb memory as well on my older PC, Intel i5 5th gen. with 16Gb and 4 cores.

I blamed Windows, but only Xojo did flicker on my screen(s). Both, laptop and PC have multiple (3) screens connected to it (because it could on both) and the flickering only started with the latest Xojo release with me. The flickering is inconsistant and you cannot reproduce it directly. It just happens.

Note: no other application is flickering on my PC or laptop.

Thank you Rob. I ran further tests on my PC overnight. No problem found. I think that an issue is my next step. I will post the issue number here in case you wish to add to the case.

In the past we’ve found all sorts of misbehavior related to screens. Some seemed related to dual screens, size, colors, some scale in those screens, etc. I lived with a bad behavior on some icons for years until (collaterally?) fixed in 2023r3 or r4 (they fixed a problem related to scale if I recall correctly).
MAYBE there are some bugs triggered by number of SCREENs > 2 ? Maybe a mix of number of screens and different scales on those? You guys should collect as much info about your screens configurations and compare looking for a trigger of the problem.

Rick, your hypotheses make sense to me. One thing that can be ruled out in my current case however, is the different scale/resolution. All three screens are the same brand and model. All three are set to the same resolution: 2560 X 1440 and scale (125%). It may well be the more than 2 screens hypothesis. So far, with one physical machine (a core I3 10th gen, 16GB, 1 screen and a VM on Proxmox) I have not been able to reproduce the behavior, using the same project. I do not find any apparently related events in the windows event viewer around the time of the flickering.

In my Windows Laptop setup I use 2 screens, both FHD, but the integrated one is 125% and the external is 100%

In a beta if I recall correctly I had a problem with the IDE running in the 125% one, that gone away when I moved the IDE to the 100% one, then they “fixed”.

The only new weird thing I got, was returning to the IDE after… I don’t know… 40 minutes?.. and the IDE was blank. Everything inside its “square” vanished and I could not force a repaint. Tried minimize and back, moving to the other screen and back, nothing solved. Then I found a workaround… “File->New Workspace” and a “New View” of the IDE was created, now ok. Then I closed the bugged one, and saved my changes, and closed Xojo for a new fresh restart. Never used this feature before.

Let’ see what Xojo tell us about the issue. I created the issue: 75593. Feel free to add any possibly relevant bit of information. You are bringing new elements that may be relevant.

On a 2K screen such as mine, Windows recommends 125% scale, which is actually comfortable. 100% is a bit small for my older eyes and 150% is way too big.

I pointed this conversation there so they can dig more info and context here too.

Thank you Rick. Good idea.

So, I disconnected one screen, rebooted the computer and tested again. I can see the same behavior. It may not be > 2 screens. Maybe 125% scale? In addition, the flickering and unresponsiveness can be observed when analyzing the project. Here also, clicking outside the IDE fixes the problem and the compiling step can complete normally. I added that to the case.

I set the screens to 100% scale. At first, I thought that the issue was resolved. It only took a while longer to see the problem again. Scrolling through code, selecting code or analyzing code, opening the IDE on a page layout all trigger the unresponsiveness and flickering at 100% scale also. Again, the fix is easy: click outside of the IDE (except for page layout. Here, I must delete the uistate file or try to restart the IDE multiple times until I am lucky). It is still workable, but I am a bit worried that something more severe may occur unobserved. Saving and backupping regularly. It may be time to set up a git repository. I have been putting this off for a long time.

Going back to 125%…

A little update: I swapped memory banks and graphics card with parts from other computers, connected a generic wired mouse and keyboard, disconnected every non essential peripheral. (removing all traces of previous device drivers). Cleaned the computer of all abandoned software as much as possible, removed all leftover DLL’s including redistributable VS runtime libraries and such. No effect. As of yesterday, I was able to trigger the issue with other programs than Xojo. Firing up an old Windows XP era game that still works under Windows 11 with compatibility settings, I was able to make Notepad++, Adobe Reader and Outlook behave in the same erratic way as Xojo.

I am now down to two possibilities: a motherboard / CPU issue, or a Windows core component issue that I was unable to diagnose specifically until now.

Bottom line: I am now 99% certain that the issue is located somewhere on my computer, and not specific to Xojo (well, that part is 100% certain now…). Somehow, the intense screen redraw that Xojo seems to be using just may have made the problem apparent. Xojo is now my proverbial canary for OS or hardware issues. I will post a final resolution once I went to the bottom of the issue.

On a side note, the latest mandatory MS update (KB5034765) killed the taskbar and start button on two separate Windows 11 computers here. (ironically enough, the KB installed just fine on my sick computer), one of the affected devices being a Microsoft Surface laptop. The workaround is simple. Restart the Windows Explorer service. It is just an annoyance. The KB is said to contain fixes for start button issues. It was years since the last time a MS correction caused a problem on one of my computers. I was not missing that at all. Half of my computers are now running Linux, either Mint or Debian depending on the role. The trend will surely continue.

:+1:t2:

I’d guess a video card issue.

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It is a reasonable hypothesis. I thought of that too, this is why one of my first tests was to remove the driver and install a new one. When that failed to correct the issue, I swapped the graphics adapter with one from another computer, of a different brand and model, making sure to remove the original driver completely. The issue remained. That pretty much ruled out the graphics card hypothesis. I am now in process of transferring all my applications and data to another machine. I will then reinstall Windows from scratch and see if the issue persists. If it does, then I am probably looking at a faulty motherboard. Perhaps a bios update is needed to match recent Windows changes. I will see one step at a time.