Web2 still has unusable controls 2+ years after its first release

[Rick_Araujo]

@Ivan_Tellez

if only they had listened to those who sugested the use of java instead of kotlin

That would be dumb. Kotlin has future in the Android platform, Java will deprecate.

Android’s Kotlin-first approach  |  Android Developers

[Greg_O]

@Tim_Parnell

If I describe how to reproduce the bug and it’s not difficult, the kneejerk “requires a project” response is unacceptable. You may be a victim of Shifting Baseline Syndrome. Xojo wasn’t always this bad at handling bug reports.

I can shed some light on this.

In my 11 years at Xojo, we got all kinds of bug reports. More than half of them had no system configuration info or the instructions were little more than “it broke”. That meant that it was possible for an engineer to test it on their machine, only to find out later that it’s only reproducible on Ubuntu 20.04.

If you remember, I had a reputation for kicking back “seemingly simple” cases for more info, but I also know that more than once we only fixed what we thought the user described because there was ambiguity… and that’s the problem. Writing a bug report when you’ve just encountered it is great, but people tend to glaze over some of the important details. Anyone who writes code for a living knows that it takes a bit of time to switch contexts to “work on something else”. I used to keep Feedback open all day, watching for critical regressions to come up. If one did, I’d grab it, triage it. That process could take 5 minutes or 50 minutes depending on the quality of what we got, but that length wasn’t an indicator of the report quality. 5 min could be “there’s not enough info to proceed” or “I followed the instructions and it was easily reproducible”. The ones that really ticked me off were the ones that took an hour of my time, only to find that it was only reproducible on ARM or on a raspberry pi or on a machine not connected to the internet or in a locked-down domain account. The engineers cannot divine that information by magic, and yet it was expected.

Now as an ex-employee, I also sometimes forget to include a project, but I try really hard to provide reproducible steps. Then I quit the IDE, relaunch it and follow my own steps to see if I can reproduce it. Then I try to think if there’s anything about my situation that could be unique and pass that along too.

[Greg_O]

I see that on this other thread, even you are asking for a sample project:

@Tim_Parnell

OP you will need to produce a sample project showing the problem, because as you describe the issue it cannot be reproduced.

So why is it such a crime when Xojo does it?

[Tim_Parnell]

You’ll notice I went through the effort to try and reproduce it and provided my own example showing how from their description I could not reproduce the results. It’s literally the next sentence you did not include in the cherry-picked quote.

The crux of my complaint against Xojo is that I go through all the effort to describe a reproducible situation and they demand a project just to sweep the problem under the rug. I even recently caught Xojo staff not even look at the sample project I provided.

I’m not saying that you should never provide a project. I’m saying that Xojo is using this method to gaslight people, stick their head in the sand, and sweep problems under the rug. Sometimes a sample project just isn’t necessary.

Please do not get me going. We were starting to get along.

[Tim_Parnell]

I mean, imagine being asked for a sample project to prove that the turning off the “Include Function Names” switch still does absolutely nothing at all.

That kind of thing is what I’m bothered by, and that’s how the current triage team behaves.

[AlbertoD]

@Greg_O

even you are asking for a sample project

@Tim_Parnell

you will need to produce a sample project showing the problem, because as you describe the issue it cannot be reproduced

Tim took the time to follow the description and can’t reproduce the problem. Actual Xojo policy is not review the case if it has no sample (almost all times).