Web 2.0 first approach

Hi everyone,
I am making the first attempts to use the 2020r1.2 version of Xojo on Windows 10 PC.
While Desktop applications written with version 2019r1.1 have had no problems running in the new version, web applications are causing me significant troubles.
I don’t have a documentation that tells me what I need to change to run a web application in the new release, so I have to experiment by compiling the application and looking at the significant number of errors reported (177 in my case).

One of the first things I noticed was the disappearance of all the styles I had created in my project, with the consequent disastrous effect on the layout of my pages and containers.

Somewhere I read (if I understand correctly) that the styles have been replaced by themes, and that a default one was used (boostrap.min.css): I don’t see any trace of it.

I visited Bootswatch.com and downloaded a couple of themes, but I don’t know how to use them.
Furthermore, there are many errors regarding events that are no longer available: it would be useful to have a list of these events, perhaps with an indication on how to replace them.

Most likely I am saying inaccurate or trivial things, but it is my first approach to the 2020r1.2 release, so please forgive me.
I would be very happy if someone could show me where to find information to help me solve the problems encountered.

Thanks a lot to all of you … a greeting from Italy.

Nedi

Nothing wrong in asking, but you are raising tons of questions. Web 2.0 is a different beast compared to Web 1.0. My recommendation to bring you app to speed:

  • Ignore as much as possible Web 1.0
  • Start with the examples in the example folder for Xojo
  • Try to understand those examples
  • Once you feel comfortable, try to build you first “GUI” and develop a bit of functionality
  • Then search the forum for specific questions regarding the design tuning etc.

Event though it sounds “irritating”, I suggest to postpone design questions to the point that you feel comfortable how Web 2 works in principal. Some fine tuning involves at least rudimentary knowledge of CSS and JavaScript. All do-able(!) but only after you feel more comfortable. Greetings from Munich ;-).

Using Web 2.0 can be a bit of a culture shock if you are familiar with 1.0. Now, to answer some of your questions:

  • There is a default theme that you will not see in the IDE with web 2.0. You can easily replace it with your own.
  • Be aware that the IDE is no longer exactly wysiwyg, especially if you add styling elements through code. Pretty much a must since the theme is one size fits all. Most (but not all) specific styling requirement must happen in code.
  • Make sure that the themes that you download are bootstrap.min.css files.
  • To use a theme, simply drag the file onto the navigator.
  • I am ready to bet a beer that you won’t like the result. After all, why would you just accept someone elses design choices? There is hope however. You can create your own theme statrting with theme designers online. Here are a couple of them: https://bootstrap.build/app and https://themestr.app/. I tried both and prefer the second one. Then I do additional fine tuning with Stylizer 7.
  • I dislike Web 2.0 styling with a passion. But, this is the way to go now. Better make the best of it. With some effort, you can create something that is not quite web 1.0 level, but somewhat close. I suppose I need more effort and more learning. :wink:
  • My take on Web 2.0 is that it is not production ready: issues with many controls, performance issues, etc. It is still a good idea to get up to speed with it so that in a few releases when it is hopefully ready for prime time, you can use it.

Greetings from Montreal!

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and my view is different, but no offense! We are all different. I have already a “monster” web app and I’m very happy. Not everything is yet perfect, I can’t agree more, but you can definitely build something reasonable. But(!) I tried to reduce the customization to a maximum for the time being.

As for my Web 1.0 apps. I don’t think even a second to migrate them 1:1, as I know it won’t work and cause more efforts but trouble then starting from scratch.

my quote of the day! +1.

Jeannot, I agree. I currently develop/maintain side-by-side a fairly large application in 1.0 and in 2.0. The idea is to learn as much as possible on Web 2.0 and if possible, take advantage of 2.0 improvements. It is true that we cannot expect to optimize a 2.0 app the same way that we do a 1.0 app. But as of now, I would not inflict my 2.0 version on my customers… Perhaps my own shortcomings, but also certainly some Web 2.0.

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I do understand why, I guess this depends pretty much on what you are using your app for. Mine is mainly reading cloud (API) and database data and doing something new with it, partially doing pdf and chart reports for downloading etc. And with the MBS plugins I can do all this perfectly fine.

But yes, many Web 1 things are missing especially the pixel-specific design and styling. In regards of the styling (responsive / adaptable design) the customers need some “tolerance” indeed. I’m lucky that mine are focusing on the content and the functionality.

Thank you, @Louis_D and @Jeannot_Muller: as I am moving the first step in Web application, Web 2.0 scared me a lot.
Your points of view let me think that I wouldn’t try to simply open a Web 1.0 app and think to correct all that doesn’t work.
I have to study Web 2.0 and start from scratch.

Thank you again!

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if you are not running a business-critical app, means:

customer is asking for a change, which can’t be done in Web 1.0 (I doubt there would be such a scenario)

I would sincerely recommend to start from scratch and mimic the behavior from Web 1.0. You can still copy a lot of your code.

You can leverage much of what you already know from Web 1.0. Just not much when it comes down to styling and designing the user interface. Much of the underlying language is solid as can be exepcted. There are some changes that will hit you if you use these finctionalities in web 1.0, but you will find workarounds and new ways to do things, sometimes better. I know that I can come across as very negative about 2.0. It is mostly styling that bugs me to the highest degree - then again, some on this forum have applauded the change. So, this is definitely my opinion, and nothing more. Then, there are some nasty some performance issues if you use extensively popup menus and containers. I have one particular page (replete with several containers, each containing popupmenus, text fields, listboxes, datepickers, etc.) that opens almost instantly in 1.0. The same page takes upwards of 30 seconds to show in 2.0, and another 15 before the rendering is complete (compiled, not in the IDE!). I am in process of rethinking entirely that section of the application in order to minimize the problem. But only de-bottlenecking some aspects of 2.0 will fix it completely. All that said, Web 2.0 is quite decent for a first release. I just don’t want to leave a worse impression than I should.

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