Technical limitations of xojo

I don’t like using the monkey library every time I want to implement something.
For example, when I try to access firebase, I wonder why it doesn’t implement itself and think it should.
Delphi has all the basics implemented, but xojo is honestly too limited.

No tool or framework can ever serve everybody’s needs 100% of the time. You always end up implementing some stuff yourself, or paying someone else to do it for you. That’s just the nature of software development.

If you don’t like the balance Xojo has chosen with their product, there are endless other options from which to choose.

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I’m happy to pay for the Monkeybread plugin, the Chilkat plugin and the Valentina plugin because they provide excellent value for money. I can talk directly to the developers. If I find a bug it’s promptly fixed. If I need something it can be implemented much faster than for Xojo.

For RapidWeaver I pay even more money for plugins, themes and whatnot.

The core product always needs to be extended. When that costs money that’s absolutely fine because I save a lot of time.

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When I get my first Apple computer, it had built in BASIC (AppleSoft), and I was happy.

Then, I discovered assembly (Merlin, a paid software) and I get it.

That’s actually all there is to say about this. :person_shrugging:

Delphi has all the basics implemented

At a price that is WAY more than Xojo plus plugins.

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I’ve recently been refreshing my relationship with Object Pascal. It’s not a straightforward comparison.

FPC and Lazarus are entirely free, along with a huge number of tools, controls and libraries. Lazarus is a hugely capable development environment, held back by a ‘prickly’ community IMHO.

Delphi Community Edition is free for non-commercial and (very) limited commercial use. The paid licenses start at more than a Xojo Pro license but are (arguably) less of a risk.

Firebase ?
because you spoke about delphi you meant access a Firebird database?

There are reasons to have a more complete framework OOTB.

Supported by a much larger company, with lots of engineers, and Delphi is just one of their products.
Large number of users due to be an old 90’s product in evolution and with many code donations from the community being integrated over time.

But their community edition is a stripped version… only open to those making less than $5000/year.

And people should move to a PRO version as soon as they reach some bottleneck or start to make few bucks.

Their paid version is expensive, and have multiple values depending on the markets; due to that, they prefer to hide the prices to avoid comparisons with others and even with themselves.

I extremely dislike hidden prices. It was $99.95 exposed on a magazine when I bought my copy in 1996. It destroyed my CA-Clipper for Windows copy. It was a huge success, but with the success they started to think that they could increase the prices, buy buildings, and keep selling as much they did, until they started spiraling towards a possible bankrupt with an identity crisis in the middle (became Inprise, and later reverted the name) and downsized until getting sustainable again. But they lost that magical touch (and Anders Hejlsberg, and the magical price point) of the 80’s (Turbo Pascal) and 90’s (Delphi).

What I miss in Xojo is the capacity that Delphi has, of the community writing components (controls, addons, etc) easily using the language itself, and expanding the IDE and integrating those libs into it over time ending with a high capable library of visual and non-visual components until someone says “they are more complete”.

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Has anyone used a Delphi app in the last 20 years? I only remember having a terrible training on a capable but super ugly app on statistics for car problems. That must have been 10 years ago or so.

It does amazing things for Windows. I’m not a fan of the macOS way of them (probably any Mac user too).
There’s no Mac IDE as Xojo, you should write your Mac or Linux app on Windows and test on the target platform.

In my humble opinion, Xojo is fine as long as you invest more time and efforts in developing your applications. In other words, you have to be willing to do more yourself;

I only create small applications for our own use, and are happy with Xojo. What bothers me is the slowness of the iDE. But I can live with that.

Broadly speaking I agree with this.

What in particular are you finding slow?

I agree that all IDEs have their limitation. It doesn’t hurt to check your options. First of allo I really like XOJO. The last few months I have been chekcing Free Pascal and Lazarus.The lazarus community seems to be helpful and there is a vibrant community of free addon developers. It’s a learning curve since I haven’t touched Pascal since the early '80’s but I think it’s worth learning especially since it’s free to use.

More than you might expect.

In it’s heyday Delphi attracted a strong following in the enterprise client/server development market, built around the Interbase and SQLAnywhere backends. When SAP accquired Sybase and the SQLAnywhere engine it rendered Delphi a goto SAP development tool.

Delphi was also somewhat unique in offering high level Windows RAD with a low level ability. You could throw an event driven GUI together as easily as VB6 (or Xojo) but still get down and dirty. You could even bring your legacy C/C++ and assembly along and embed it directly in the source. The combination attracted niche hardware manufacturers to invest in creating deeply technical code that is difficult to re-write. Later versions of Delphi introduced new features but the compiler remains near 100% backwards compatible with source written at V1.

I was actively developing with Delphi from V1 to V7, mainly providing code for test departments migrating to Windows from Borland DOS products. Some of that code is still in production use nearly 30 years on.

Borland was ultimately the victim of the Microsoft expansion, along with Novell and many others. Borland were in trouble before Delphi even launched. The prices started rising when Delphi was one of the few products with any real value left in the portfolio. The Inprise rebranding was misguided as it confused and fragmented a customer base that was already in decline. Embercado picked up Code Gear (the Delphi developers) for just $20,000,000, an absolute song.

I can definitely confirm slowness on Windows. On MacOS it isn’t much of a problem, but at least once a day, sometimes more, I have to restart Xojo because clicking pretty much anything in the IDE, whether it’s a control in a Window or a method, can take anywhere from 5-10 seconds to actually select. It gets worse the more you use it. Keep in mind, this is on a brand new i9-14900k PC with 192gb of ram.

But on MacOS I can run the IDE for weeks at a time without a restart and be fine.

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If you have a question about our plugins, please do not hesitate to ask. I’ve been extending Xojo for over 20 years and we got a huge library of code to reuse.

If you need a license, well maybe get a trial today and look for some offers next month.

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If you haven’t already done so, I would log a bug about that.

My guess it has something to do with the Windows Xojo GUI framework as it is not very efficient.

While it is in principle the correct answer, this is a kind of problem that is very difficult to reproduce on a small example. The issue will most likely be closed without any further action. There is an other similar problem that I experience and cannot reproduce in a sample project. I will not create an issue only to see it closed without further action.

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