Oh…thats with Xojo and my app running.
Page ins & Page Outs ?
- My Debian system runs VERY smooth on my laptop. Its an Acer Aspire S7.
Well, for benchmarks, yes. But if you are just asking for a show of hands to try to see where the source an issue is, it is a very useful exercise. If it runs fine natively on WIN 7, fine on Win 7 on a VM, but appears overly sluggish on Win 8 in a VM, might be worth poking around in Win 8.1 to see there is anything to it.
0 page ins page outs tells more than “Acer Aspire S7”
Do other graphics intensive apps run smoothly ?
Gimp maybe (although I’m not sure it pushes a video card in the same way the IDE does)
Which graphics chip in this one (some have Intel 4400’s and some intel 4000’s)
There are some noted issues with certain kernel versions & the 4000 GPU
Knowing exactly which model you have like an S7-391-9413 or S7-392-74508G2TWS etc might be helpful
Everything I’ve tried suggests 32 bit Mint running Cinnamon should work well
Of course it may just be me, but there is something illogical about that deduction. 
First, when you are talking about sluggishness I assume that you are referring to performance, right? Again, I wouldn’t test or evaluate performance, of any kind, using a VM. VM’s can only emulate the guest OS and its hardware. The host’s OS plays a major part, and directly influences, the emulation of the guest OS and its hardware. So I would think you would first test it natively, and if there is a noticeable difference, then confirm the noticeable difference can be observed using the VM. That is the only way you can make that deduction. You have to rule out the VM being a factor first.
GIMP works fine. S7-391-6468.
I tried LM17 32bit on a Core2Duo 1.8ghz and it was a little smoother, but still choppy when editing my App…removing/adding/dragging popup menus/text fields etc. Its Xojo. Everything else I do on this laptop is snappy.
I’m not trying to test or evaluate anything. I’m trying to provide another bullet point to the guy to help him find the source of the problem. If on the same machine, WIN 7 in VMs run the Xojo IDE smoothly and the same project on Win 8.1 on the same machine and same installation in Parallel runs really sluggish, might be worth checking into as the culprit
Sure it might be. But one would have to rule out the VM as being a factor first. You are talking about different operating systems with different emulators. Plus one would also have to take into account what else is going on on the host system too. VM’s are only good for testing general functionality and running OS specific applications – not for being able to observe if there is a performance issue with a guest application.
Don’t forget that Xojo started out as a Mac only development tool. While I don’t have access to Xojo’s customer statistics, I wouldn’t be surprised if a large percentage of it’s users are Mac users and it seems that the number of people using Xojo to target the Mac App Store is growing (this is based upon forum discussions and sales of App Wrapper).
So while there is without a doubt a much larger percentage of people using Windows in the world, Xojo has to focus on their customers, if they’re predominantly Mac customers…
Now I get that if they moved over their framework to .Net (which I believe part of it already uses .Net), this would increase their appeal to potential windows customers.
The trouble is that Xojo have limited resources and have to oil the squeakiest wheels first, if there’s more Mac users bitching about Apple’s latest changes, Xojo needs to focus on that as currently Xojo has a larger Mac audience and it can’t risk alienating existing customers, especially not some of the long time customers (like myself, have been using it since 1.0, back in 1997).
There have been many occasions where it’s been suggested that Xojo hire more staff, it’s been explained time and time again, how this might not actually benefit Xojo. I don’t want to head down that beaten horse road again, but it does seem like Xojo has too many big tasks to endure right now.
Is there a feedback request for .Net support?
I had an interesting idea some time ago, for Xojo to drop their own compiler, instead at build/run time to create a project that the OS development tools can compile. I don’t think it’s very practical, but it would mean, say on a Mac, it would export Objective-C (or swift as it seems that Obj-C is going to be retired in the future) and then get Xcode to compile it a Mac application. If you’re building Windows, it would create a Visual Studio project, to which Visual Studio would compile.
Of course the problem would be compiling for different platforms from one OS. I think it would have tremendous benefits for the complied applications and would allow much more fine grained control over many things…
Linux users being left out…I understand though… Best way for me to complain is not to register but move on.
[quote=129411:@Sam Rowlands]Don’t forget that Xojo started out as a Mac only development tool. While I don’t have access to Xojo’s customer statistics, I wouldn’t be surprised if a large percentage of it’s users are Mac users and it seems that the number of people using Xojo to target the Mac App Store is growing (this is based upon forum discussions and sales of App Wrapper).
[/quote]
Last I knew the percentages Mac OS & Windows were just about dead even and Linux was < 1%
[quote=129411:@Sam Rowlands]Now I get that if they moved over their framework to .Net (which I believe part of it already uses .Net), this would increase their appeal to potential windows customers.
[/quote]
.Net has appeal for several reasons
Primarily a more modern framework to build on - which also means getting a compositing engine more like OS X & now Linux’ which both double buffer
[quote=129411:@Sam Rowlands]Is there a feedback request for .Net support?
[/quote]
I think there is
One issue here would be translating Xojo to Obj-C (for OS X), C# (for Windows) and C++(for linux)
There are idioms in those languages that Xojo code doesn’t map into very well and then in Xojo that don’t map into those languages well.
And you’d require Xcode, and VS AND … well whatever dev environment on Linux
So your costs just went up in some realms
Plus setting any one of them up to actually cross compile to another OS would be a fairly large task
- google for “Xcode cross compile to Windows”
Heck just doing it in plain C++ is a big enough pain in the ■■■■
Trying to automatically convert code & compile it
ick
The reality in our user base is linux users of theIDE are an extremely tiny group.
But they do exist and we do test releases on several distros (the ones we list as supported)
THis is why it puzzles me why things work so poorly for you
Deploying projects TO linux servers is very important as that is the Xojo Cloud + most hosting of Web Edition projects
[quote=129414:@Norman Palardy]The reality in our user base is linux users of theIDE are an extremely tiny group.
But they do exist and we do test releases on several distros (the ones we list as supported)
THis is why it puzzles me why things work so poorly for you
[/quote]
I know…I completely understand. I was just very pissed after spending a few hours editing/moving/updating fields/popup menus etc and it being very slow. I mean…if someone said… I have a core i5, this gfx card and this distro and Xojo runs AWESOME…then I’d overlook the stuttering in the IDE or having to edit 20 fields because I said the font = system and size is 12 yet the font size isnt correct so I have to go into each field and retype 12.
…which begs the question, why does Xojo continue to support Linux? I have no idea what resources you put towards it so maybe it is profitable and worth the effort. But it sure seems like a trouble with for all that I read on these forums, and a low usage metric should prompt that question.
I am a 1%'er … L.M.A.O!
I believe there are different Xojo users. Amateurs and professionals, including selfies, subcontractors and corporate. And amongst that diverse crowd Mac only users, Windows only users, and Linux only users. Difficult to know the proportions and I would not expect Xojo to release statistics. Reading the contributions, though, it is clear these three categories exist.
It is possible that indeed because of its Mac origins, Xojo is more oriented towards that platform. It is also very possible that the inadequacy of Apple tools make it more enticing to go for Xojo than for Objective-C. And it is also possible that the Mac platform gets more love than the others, as a consequence of the corporate culture. The fact that Xojo is well suited as an alternative to Objective-C for MAS applications probably play a role in its success, and I have no doubt that word of mouth is for a lot in the success.
But then, why do Windows only users keep using Xojo ? Why, as pointed out by some, when the ambient Mac boasting and Windows bashing makes it difficult to even simply dare asking a Windows related question, stay with a product by some aspects largely inferior to Visual Basic, the which has been under double buffered, much less flickery .NET based free product from Microsoft ? Some of them may be to quote someone “VB6 refugees”, who cannot stomach .NET and find Xojo more palatable. Some others have been long faithful customers of RealBasic. The issue now is how long will they hold to a passé product with very little evolution ? How many will simply silently drop Xojo and move to more welcoming venues ? When Andre Kuiper tells us he will not renew, does it not show someone who knows and love the language getting tired waiting for some effort ?
I do not think it is quite fair that .NET be put so complacently on the backburner, while it is apparent Mac OS X is preferred.
Then there are the multiplatform users who can be Mac mainly, Windows mainly, or completely multiplatform with both a PC and a Mac, using VM or not. Indeed, if not too many declares get in the way, one can readily generate an executable for any of the three platforms with very little work. But then, what happens when a Mac user decides to generate a Windows build ? As Christoph de Vocht experienced it, one steps from a well groomed IDE and flawless execution to an antiquated, flicker prone and confusing environment. I do not think it is fair to blame it entirely on Windows. Microsoft has perfected double buffering a long time ago with .NET, and added GDI+ for good measure. The first is purely lacking in Xojo, no fault of the platform itself, and the second is optional and not so well promoted. As a result, the cross platform generation of an executable for Windows often suffers.
If Xojo wants to maintain a relatively good standing as a true cross platform environment, it cannot avoid making the Windows side a bit better, more attuned to current Windows technology (.NET started 15 years ago!). And ignoring the new API that powers Windows Store applications will only make it worse, by forcing users to go for VB, as it happened to me. Then when the Windows Store picks up, it will be too late for Xojo. And as Microsoft has demonstrated many times in the past, it may take them a while, but they will eventually succeed in making their store successful.
I am not intent on blaming Xojo, or anybody for that matter. On the contrary, I love the product. I simply wish it had more balance between platforms.
[quote=129411:@Sam Rowlands]Is there a feedback request for .Net support?
[/quote]
<https://xojo.com/issue/28733> 26th. Shows the interest for such implementation !
Alex, you really get too bitter. Yes, move on if really you do not find here what you want. I even suggested two alternatives. But you may remember later how people tried to assist. There is here a sense of community that is worth considering, beyond purely technical issues.
[quote=129418:@Michel Bujardet]
Alex, you really get too bitter. Yes, move on if really you do not find here what you want. I even suggested two alternatives. But you may remember later how people tried to assist. There is here a sense of community that is worth considering, beyond purely technical issues.[/quote]
Oh yea! I sure do feel VERY thankful for the community! I even had a member help me with my code after I emailed it to him. No doubt about that. I havent completely given up yet.
There I added the case to my top cases, I may as well move it to the top as the rest of my top cases are such low priority, their probably not going to be… erm…
Great. The more Linux users, the more chances to share a better community based support for that platform.
Congratulations, Sam. Coming from such a prominent Mac specialist, your support will no doubt be appreciated.