Remove Reference to Xojo in Built Applications & Support Files?

Looking at a compiled application in a hex editor and checking for plain text I found “Xojo” listed several times in both the Windows and Macintosh applications. I also found that four of the Macintosh framework files and four Windows dll files specifically mention Xojo in their names.

How does one remove these references or change them to something else? I am really not interested in advertising to competitors how my application was made because that will lead them to build a competing project with Xojo and I then will have no point of releasing mine, especially if they decide to give it away.

I kind of thought once we bought a license we didn’t have to pay royalty payments - I consider this little better than forcing compiled applications to display a Xojo About window as any competitor can easily search Google for “xojo” once they see that in the files names.

that will lead them to build a competing project with Xojo and I then will have no point of releasing mine<<

Have you even written something yet?
Hard to see how someone can copy it before you release it.

Be first, be good, be value for money.
No-one is going to copy your app just because they know what you used to build it.

Technically you could just make an app to rename all the occurrences of Xojo with some other 4 digit name.

But I think there are other solutions. e.g. one client uses an app which packs the xojo app in a self running exe for Windows. So they don’t see DLLs.

Exactly, and I doubt that anyone will decide to learn Xojo just to copy your app. Why would they spend time learning Xojo when they could do it in another development tool that they are comfortable with? I wouldn’t be worried about a competitor finding out that you made your app in Xojo; they couldn’t care less. As Jeff said, to be successful you will need to make your app the first and a good value for the money.

To put it another way, is knowing that Michelangelo used a chisel to create David enough for you to craft a rival masterpiece?

It’s not the tool, it’s the artist.

His main concern may be about xojo’s reputation affecting sales…

See:
https://forum.xojo.com/conversation/post/154733

[quote]I think this may also take some of the “mystery” out of the product if a customer takes a look at this and does a Google search for Xojo - they could be thinking maybe the product is not so great as it was probably done by an amateur.
[/quote]

Really I don’t think most customers care what tools are used if the app works well, looks good, meets their needs , and is priced right.

The coding snobs are welcome to take 5 times longer to do the same thing! :wink:

  • karen

[quote=155041:@Karen Atkocius]His main concern may be about xojo’s reputation affecting sales…

See:
https://forum.xojo.com/conversation/post/154733 [/quote]

He was complaining in that other thread that Windows DDLs had Xojo in their names. I suggested a solution would be to use Molebox or something like that to make it a single executable, but after quickly reading another thread I posted the link to, in spite of several members telling they use such tools successfully, he dismisses it summarily without having even apparently tried anything.

At one point, I wonder if his concern is truly the name of DDLs that no user in his right mind will care to examine after the Windows installer has placed them in the Programs(x86) folder.

Now he goes into the Macintosh app bundle and starts looking for the dylib names and looks again with a hex editor for mentions of Xojo. How many users will do that ?

Sometimes, there is simply no technical solution, because the issue is elsewhere …

Wouldn’t that alter the CRC so the app would be considered “corrupt”?

Don’t feed the trolls …

Worse, it could simply break all references to the framework in the code… Too bad Xanax has more letters than Xojo …

Sorry, the quote function is not working…

“He was complaining in that other thread that Windows DDLs had Xojo in their names. I suggested a solution would be to use Molebox or something like that to make it a single executable, but after quickly reading another thread I posted the link to, in spite of several members telling they use such tools successfully, he dismisses it summarily without having even apparently tried anything.”

Actually, yes I did try the free product referenced in the thread. It caused a series of 3-4 error windows upon start that needed to be dismissed one after another. I didn’t try the two paid versions since one on of those, if I recall correctly one runs 50% the cost of a Xojo 3 platform license. Other issues addressed in this thread were several posts discussing that this option can be a bad choice because it would cause a Windows user’s anti-virus software to kick in.

“His main concern may be about xojo’s reputation affecting sales…”

Yes, quite true. I have seen a lot of negative information regarding Xojo and it former namesakes and do not want my product associated with it.

“At one point, I wonder if his concern is truly the name of DDLs that no user in his right mind will care to examine after the Windows installer has placed them in the Programs(x86) folder.”

Actually, I do not plan to use an installer. I personally do not like installers and messing around with the internal structure of the user’s computer regardless of whether what other Windows software have been pushing all these years.

“Have you even written something yet?”

I use it every day on the Mac side, but Windows means more sales.

“Hard to see how someone can copy it before you release it.”

Yes, that makes sense, and the sky is traditionally blue, but still does not provide any helpful information.

“No-one is going to copy your app just because they know what you used to build it.”

That is exactly how I learned how to use Xojo/RS. Found a product. I saw the product used RB in the about box. After reading what RB was I thought I could do better and thus learned RB by messing around with the internal code of other projects.

“Technically you could just make an app to rename all the occurrences of Xojo with some other 4 digit name.”

Yes, I was thinking something similar. I seem to recall reading an old rb thread several years ago about someone making a small application to do this. I think it was made more for obscuring plain text strings, method names, etc… after the app had been compiled so one could still keep their familiar and readable strings and method names in the actual project - sort of a post compile obscuration app. My first attempts manually with a hex editor did not work. That still; however, leaves the dll file names.

“But I think there are other solutions. e.g. one client uses an app which packs the xojo app in a self running exe for Windows. So they don’t see DLLs.”

So far that has failed with a free tool. Other tools can be expensive and there are issues with such a product causing problems with anti-virus software, which wasn’t an issue with my project as the app never ran.

Then perhaps it might be wise to find another product.

@Peter Shultz

You seem to be pretty quick to dismiss possible solutions. If you do not want the DLLs, there seem to be few options available. Besides Molebox, there are also http://boxedapp.com/ and http://enigmaprotector.com (quick search in this forum).

If you don’t like installers, pity. 99.9% of Windows users expect an installer, just like Mac users expect to drop the bundle in the Applications folder. Of course, you are free to do exactly not what users expect.

You ask questions in a forum. But none of the suggestions people try to help you with finds any grace in your eyes. There seems to be no solution.

Now if your issue is not technical, but the mere mention of Xojo, it maybe time to use Visual Studio for Windows and XCode for Mac. They are good products too. After all, nobody forces you to use a tool you apparently loathe.

" Yes, quite true. I have seen a lot of negative information regarding Xojo and it former namesakes and do not want my product associated with it.

Then perhaps it might be wise to find another product."

I don’t have much of problem using it for my own use, but customers are not going to be too impressed if they read all the negative information online associated with it or its former namesakes - that is, why the product was rebranded as Xojo was it not - to try to place some distance between RB, RS , and Xojo.

I do have a problem with Xojo essentially placing banner ads for its company in my product, which I was led to believe was to be royalty free. The dll files and references to Xojo in the application’s code can easily be changed to something else by the company - there is no reason why the company has to use the term “Xojo” or “RB” in the compiled application so why is it there?

“You seem to be pretty quick to dismiss possible solutions. If you do not want the DLLs, there seem to be few options available. Besides Molebox, there are also http://boxedapp.com/ and http://enigmaprotector.com (quick search in this forum).”

Actually no…

As pointed out in the thread - you did read the other thread and my answers - these applications which conceal the dll files lead to generating alerts with user’s anti-virus software, which would not be a great start with users for my app. But hey, I went ahead and tried the 3rd free solution linked to in the other thread - it crashed the application upon attempting to start it.

I didn’t try the other two possible solutions since I am not about to pay more for these options that I paid for my Xojo license:

BoxedApp:
299 Euro in December / $399 Regular, which converts to $409 in December, $544 regular

Enigma:
$149 for 32 bit version & $149 for 64 bit version

You did look at the prices of those before linking to them did you not?

Of course assuming these actually work, then I would have to worry about the user’s anti-virus software spitting out warnings. I didn’t get a change to test that as the app would not run and any case I would not have the ability to test every user’s anti-virus setup.

A quick simply solution would be for the company to remove references to Xojo and RB in the compiled applications and supporting files - after all, they do not need to have these specific names to work.

“If you don’t like installers, pity. 99.9% of Windows users expect an installer,”

I quite aware most Windows users usually see installers. Trying to make it seem like I don’t know this to invalid the rest of my post makes one wonder about this community.

I would say don’t worry about it unless your target sales group is developers.

If its something else than developers then they are not going to care and will not know the difference of Xojo vs something else.

wow… he or someone removed his last post… interesting as this person has only been on this forum for less than a week and the only topics he has posted are in regards to how to de-brand the compiled app…

I can’t think of ANY compiled app that doesn’t have some indication as to the tool used to create it (micro$oft included)

[quote=155239:@Peter Shultz][/quote]

Apparently you don’t like Xojo, have very little regard for any suggestion, already know everything and have opinions strong enough not to be changed in any way. And not a thank you for anybody trying to help either.

What exactly do you expect barging in this forum with these lectures? Telling Xojo what to do ? Complaining that development tools cost money ? Demanding that after 25 years or so a company leaves behind it’s very name because you happen to agree with gossip ? Are you trying to give lessons to all the professionals here who happen to be successful enough to have been making a living with RB/RS Xojo for a couple decades ?

Come on. Be serious for a minute. There are hundreds of thousands or Xojo users worldwide. Do you seriously believe everybody is waiting for your teaching ? If you really do not want the name RB or Xojo to appear within the confines of your program, just be a man and use another tool. You seem pretty sure of your competence. It should be easy for you to do, right ?

Switching on ignore for that user…

Oh… .duh… thats what happened… I put him on ignore hours ago… LOL!

“wow… he or someone removed his last post… interesting as this person has only been on this forum for less than a week and the only topics he has posted are in regards to how to de-brand the compiled app…”

I am little confused. I can see my post. I was attempting to edit it - does it disappear from the thread when its being edited - I have don’t know - the quote button does not work for some reason here - it keeps opening another tab in my browser to the same thread instead of inserting quote marks where the cursor is.

“I can’t think of ANY compiled app that doesn’t have some indication as to the tool used to create it (micro$oft included)”

As I have said earlier I don’t have any problem with the dll files showing Microsoft as they do now because any users are going to expect that and any potential competitors are going to expect that, but then most small time competitors are not going to buy into Microsoft’s development tool racket. On the other hand a competitor seeing it was made with Xojo can work on a competing product for free for a time and then spend $99 for a license and have a competing product up and running so why advertise in the product that the product was made with Xojo? This is exactly how I came to use Real Basic - I downloaded an application that had a Made with Real Basic logo in the about box and decided I could do better. Did the developer of the RB made app get my business? No, I made my own. Now I am the developer, so why would I want advertising in my app as to how it was made?

“What exactly do you expect barging in this forum with these lectures? Telling Xojo what to do ? Complaining that development tools cost money ? Demanding that after 25 years or so a company leaves behind it’s very name because you happen to agree with gossip ? Are you trying to give lessons to all the professionals here who happen to be successful enough to have been making a living with RB/RS Xojo for a couple decades ?”

Gee, I don’t know, I thought these forums were for paid customers. and potential customers. I am a paid customer.

Did Xojo change its name? Yes. Why? There are a lot of negative information online about the product when it was branded real studio or real basic. That’s the fact. Whether its true or not Xojo decided to change it name so why would I want my Xojo made project associated with this? How exactly would removing the references to Xojo and RB in the compiled application make the company abandon its own name - it already did that when the company rebranded its product. I am simply asking for the company to remove its branding from my compiled applications as I look upon that as advertising in my product for Xojo and a form of royalty payment.

“Apparently you don’t like Xojo, have very little regard for any suggestion, already know everything and have opinions strong enough not to be changed in any way. And not a thank you for anybody trying to help either.”

A frankly very condescending answer, but perhaps its a language issue. If one of my employees gave that answer to a customer they would be fired on the spot. Its also wrong on all counts.

Used the product on and off since Real Basic 3.5 for my own use.

I tried one of the suggested applications. The one that I tried (a free one) did not work. The other three applications are overpriced, costing more than a Xojo license in some cases. the cheapest is $150. Other posters here have also stated that these applications can cause the compressed Windows applications to cause problems with the ant-virus software of users - not my words, but the words of other professionals here. I don’t think my app will be a success if its causing anti-virus alert windows to pop up - there would be frankly no way to even test for this due to the multitude of Windows anti-virus programs and versions of Windows there are to test on.

“Are you trying to give lessons to all the professionals here who happen to be successful enough to have been making a living with RB/RS Xojo for a couple decades ?”

Very few people that use Xojo make their living off Xojo as with any development tool. Most of the money is made by those selling products that pertain to the development tools. Unfortunately being a “pro” does not mean you know everything.

“Telling Xojo what to do ?”

That is the whole point of feedback. I do it all the time! I’ve made suggestions to the publishers of garagesale on the Mac which were incorporated into the product as I am a user of the product. They thanked for the suggestions, now the app is easier to use. They also decided not to include some too specialized features I suggested, but I was not told to “get stuffed” for suggesting something they did not currently want to include.

http://www.iwascoding.com/GarageSale/

[quote=155251:@Peter Shultz]
Did Xojo change its name? Yes. Why? [/quote]
It had more to do with not being able to OWN “Real Studio” since this phrase applies to recording artists & others.
So google searches for “real studio” would turn up lots of hits that were not us.

Xojo however was available (completely) on every place we could find - so it can be OURS in every sense.

That actually was a big motivator