R3: WOW, what an improvement!

I came from VB6 and .NET. We chose Xojo for three reasons.

  • The code was very similar to what my team was use to seeing and working in
  • Generating native executables
  • The ability to create cross-platform applications.

Right now, I can’t find many things out there that can do that.

[quote=38392:@Gary MacDougall]I don’t believe you lost a sale on this.

Maybe I’m wrong, but boy… all he had to do was point out the issues, right?[/quote]
You’re probably right.

Dear Gary MacDougall,

Firstly I have to tell you that I am a very patient man and not get angry easily. I can tell you, I am not angry on this moment, instead I am perfectly calm again, which is your luck otherwise I would now use a language which is not suitable to use on a public place like this.

Jannes called me earlier this evening and demanded to remove his account because he was abused here on the xojo forum. It was not Jannes but myself who disabled his account. My reasons where valid to setup this account for him, my only mistake was to use one of my sleeping email accounts because I could not contact him that evening and wanted to get the job done (I am a very busy man).

So MacDougall, if you want to blame someone, take me because I am a match for you, Jannes isn’t. Its my mistake, not his and I did it in good faith (I even had a disagreement with Xojo inc a day before about privacy issues). But the harm is done and I regret that very much.

Your argumentation is also based on very loose grounds. I also does not understand why this was all necessary in the first place. I am sure Geoff Perlman is more than man enough to speak for himself when he feels offended.

But I have to warn you MacDougall, if you ever cross my path ever again in this way you did last night, you will get to know me from my worst side and you can be sure I will not so civilised as tonight. Be assured I gave you a lot of credit!

Somewhere next week I will send an explanation to Xojo customer care by email. Until then, I let it rest and will not be around here for a while.

Sincerely Yours,

Verberne Chris
acra-endeavours Botswana - Belgium

I’m certainly not offended. I just wanted to know what issues he had with Xojo and if he had reported them or not.

And BTW Chris, you were one of two people who for a few hours were marked as “not verified” when in fact, you were. We figured out why and fixed it. Just FYI.

Chris,

Your friend, probably inadvertently, set off a couple triggers. One is talking about competing product B in product A’s forums. We’re a lot like futball fans, just better looking and without the requisite deviated septums. The other is the expectation of “bug free” development software. It just doesn’t happen in this universe, and anyone who claims to have seen it is lying. Depending on the person, the strength of that particular belief tends to have half-life of a between a few hours and a few months of engagement with people who know what’s up.

Most users of Xojo who are doing anything interesting aren’t here because the IDE and frameworks are the paragon of all known desirable software qualities (plural, software “quality” singular is meaningless). They’re here because this tool does a job for them. It’s a simple cost/benefit argument, not a moral one.

Invite him back. We’ll be nicer and help him see some of the benefits he might overlook by having unrealistic indefinite standards.

-Brad

[quote=38418:@Geoff Perlman]I’m certainly not offended. I just wanted to know what issues he had with Xojo and if he had reported them or not.

And BTW Chris, you were one of two people who for a few hours were marked as “not verified” when in fact, you were. We figured out why and fixed it. Just FYI.[/quote]

I sure hope we don’t get in a scenario of labeling everyone as “unverified” as a Troll. Because identity has been such a hot topic on this forum it appears carrying that label is like the scarlet letter. For new users it gives them a bad feeling like they are an outsider right when they are introduced to Xojo and trying the product out.

I only see a downside here. What does having that label next to someone’s name actually accomplish? Am I to ignore them? Use “extreme” caution when engaging that person? If the person’s post is hostile I can just ignore it and move on, regardless if they are verified or not. I really don’t get it.

My understanding of this is that all that means is they have not purchased something from XOJO with that same name. Which means it is HIGHLY likely they are a new user and trying to learn the product. If Xojo wants to enforce verification instead of labeling all the new users as “Unverified” why don’t they instead leave those blank and label the verified users as “Verified” - at least those people have actually committed to buying something, it is “less” likely you scare them off…

Rant/OFF

It wasn’t my intention to label anybody. If someone is “not verified” but is posting questions or simply information, I would never have said a word… BUT…

I just thought it was odd that someone popped in there and said (to paraphrase), “Xojo doesn’t work for me yet, I’m using LiveCode…”

It was a bit backhanded and rude, especially when Geoff asked what the issue was with Xojo… He never answered that.

I’m not usually that reactionary, but I’m sensitive to this as in my own business we have a blog/forum that our customers can post to. Often times, we’ll get a post that is a competitor doing just that – mentioning their product and that ours doesn’t work.

I was probably being too defensive if anything.

[quote=38450:@Gary MacDougall]It wasn’t my intention to label anybody. If someone is “not verified” but is posting questions or simply information, I would never have said a word… BUT…

I just thought it was odd that someone popped in there and said (to paraphrase), “Xojo doesn’t work for me yet, I’m using LiveCode…”

It was a bit backhanded and rude, especially when Geoff asked what the issue was with Xojo… He never answered that.

I’m not usually that reactionary, but I’m sensitive to this as in my own business we have a blog/forum that our customers can post to. Often times, we’ll get a post that is a competitor doing just that – mentioning their product and that ours doesn’t work.

I was probably being too defensive if anything.[/quote]

Gary, although I quoted you in my post I was not directing anything negative towards you, if I offended I apologize. My point was more directed at how the policy of labeling someone as unverified might have a negative reaction towards new users. It is entirely possible the exchange would have played out the same regardless of the labels. Anyway, it Xojo’s playground and they’ve made it clear on the identity issue, play buy the rules or go home… I hope it pans out for them.

Joseph, that was directed towards Chris and his prior comment.

I didn’t take yours as an insult at all. You brought up a couple good issues…

Verified should be something Xojo staff can see. I don’t care to know that a forums username matches their credit card.

And after all this time, we still do not know what was not working for our testing friend.

So, we cannot eventually help him.

Hello everyone,

Emotions where running wild last night and I have to admitt I said some harsh words I did not really mean. Please accept my apology for those hard words.

You are right Brad, we are like football fans. It is very good that we show Xojo is a very good development tool, even when there are still not things who work as expected, but we are getting there. I will indeed explain to Jannes and try to convince him to come back to the Xojo forum, which is a very nice place indeed. But it will be his own decision to make.

Gary, you probably where mistaken by the “not verified” mentioning below Jannes name. You where a little hasty in your conclusions. Some things are very personal which I cannot discuss, but when I read Jannes post I was very surprised he wrote that. It is definatelly coming from someone who is reaching out again. Probably replying to Geoff was on this moment just a bridge too far. But everybody has to learn and we learn most from our mistakes. I also admitt that my reaction to you was in some parts very uncivillised which I regret and apologize for. We had a disagreement which for some reason get out of hand. On this moment I understand how you came to that conclusion. Lets forget about it, right?

Geoff, last night I read the announcement about the “verified/not verified” addition to this forum. After a disagreement with Customer Care about using real names, I dissabled forum access. After reading the announcement and the thread about the broken computer screen, I just decided not to be childish and continue participating under my real name. I am sure when someone wants to steal my identity again, there are better places to do that. Because my forum access was disabled, I found it normal to see “unverified” under my name.

When there is “is not verified” under a username, it simple mean that he/she is using the free version.

When possible I will edit my hard reply, when it is not possible, can I ask a moderator to remove that hard reply or at least the rude parts? Thank you very much for your support.

Lets remember the lesson we learned today and just do what we do best… application development and supporting each other. The Xojo forum is a very nice and friendly place for people finding the advice they need or just sharing their thoughts. Lets contribute in a positive way, so we all make a difference.

Thank you for your understanding.

Wish you all a very nice day.

With respect

Verberne Chris
acra-endeavours
Botswana - Belgium

Why are Xojo so scared of other users mention another brand to compare with, on this forum ?
I believe it’s only healthy, and maybe Xojo can learn something from it. If Xojo is a good development application then they have nothing to fear.

Lot of us (Old users) has mentioned other brands to compare with Xojo, on this forum. Are you going to delete our account ?

I dont think there’s any “fear” - FYI Gary doesn’t work for Xojo
What we really don’t want is folks coming here just to promote other tools - ie/ “marketing”
But there are often reasons that you want to compare how something is done in one tool vs another especially when it helps someone get used to how Xojo works.

I believe the problem here is not so much in what was said as it was in the way it was said and then when being questioned about it refusing to give a legitimate reply. Tone is a very important thing.

And tough to convey via email, forum posts, etc. Add in cultural, language, and education differences and it’s hard not to rub someone the wrong way.

Add age into that mix. The poster could have been a very young person.