[quote=244065:@Emile Schwarz]You are right Michel.
But, if you take the MICE application - watch the screen shot far above as an example of wat Microsoft is able to do - as an example, here’s a hiatus.
in the above screen shot, imagine that you are in the 4th tab (Export):
Press the Delete key and you will go to the Crop tab,
Press the Delete key and you will go to the Stitch tab,
Press the Delete key and you will go to the Import tab, where the screen shot have been done.
Now, press in the Delete key again and the application ask you what to do with the (Panorama) Project.
Having fun with WIndows is the name of the game ;-:)[/quote]
Here lies the misunderstanding already touched upon in previous posts. To me, Windows default apps are not the alpha and omega. They are certainly not exempt of warts.
The idea that because build-in apps are somewhat half baked or a bit ugly, all apps are to be that way is shortsighted at best. In fact, it is possible to create amazing UIs, especially for people who come from the web, Mac, and iOS.
You blurred the app name. Funny.
You are aware you are violating Xojo EULA? It is (strangely) not allowed to create an editor with Xojo code - never understand why though.
From my experience (mainly OS X), having a up-to-date-look GUI is very important and has a huge impact on sales figures.
Every time I adapt to the new OS X look, sales are going up very quickly and stay high until Apple changes the look again - most certainly it was apparent when Apple did a huge overhaul from 10.9 to 10.10
Don’t think this true for Windows though. It seems Windows users are not very aware of new GUI looks etc…
@Ashot: Even your custom made Editor (regardless the EULA discussion) looks kinda alien because everything is custom. I see no advantage in doing something like this. From the entrepreneurs’ view: Its just wasted time and ressources…
[quote=244071:@Ashot Khachatryan]Made my own IDE some time ago, for a project I had in mind. Used custom controls I made, custom controls by Jeremie Leroy, and custom controls by Einhugur. Worked well and looked well on all 3 OSs.
[/quote]
Hey, now I see why you needed that window mockup for we talked about some while ago I even recognize it
Yet.
Because people like Tomas and others insist on using the very very tired native controls that look like 1985, Windows users have been maintained in an incredible state of ignorance and low expectations in terms of UI.
What people have completely missed with the Metro look is that old fashion native controls went out the window (pun intended), and were replaced by web-like design. Plus, apps have now to behave nicely with touch screen interface. Which makes them closer to iOS and Android.
Old Windows users are what they are. Old. But today users come from smart phones UIs and will not accept last century’s design. Anybody who starts using Windows with Windows 10 and UWP (formerly Metro) touch enabled apps will be sensitive to modern design. If not consciously, the yeech effect of a dreadful antiquated Desktop look will make them reject apps designed with native controls. I understand why older programmers can stick to what they know, but the new generation of Web 2.00 users don’t give a damn about traditions.
It may be looking alien, but i still like it when something looking kinda Windows XP is getting so much attention. And i don’t see why Geoff should object if someone makes a new IDE for it’s own use, even if it was given away or sold and it would need the Xojo compiler to make executable programs i don’t think Geoff will have problems with it.
Michel, I wouln’d say ignorant… basically I do not care if Win32, WPF, UWP or whatever… I am a visual guy. A Control shouln’t look alien to the Basic UI of an OS. But Microsoft itself seems to change its heading on UI like somebody else his underwear… Yes and Win32 Controls do look kinda alien… and some software is still based on Win 95 or even Win3.x-themish icons and dialog forms… I do not like this… I would like to have nice apps… but I simply won’t invest time and ressources in UI, knowing in 1 or 2 years I have to adjust everything to keep up with the pace of underlaying OS changes… that’s why support of native controls is so important to me (even if it’s a mix of HTML).
In the Mac universe, since 1984, there has been major changes in system and processor on very regular basis, and still today, every two years or so, the system aesthetics change. There are fashion trends in the UI, like hud windows, dark look, vibrancy, and so on. As Christophe said, improving on the UI leads to sensible sale increase on Mac.
My point is very basic : new users accustomed to Web 2.00 and mobile will instinctively prefer UIs that remind them of their familiar apps and web sites.
Soon, Win32 apps will be able to go into the Windows Store. I frankly doubt programs designed with native controls will be able to perform well there without a major UI refactoring.
Yeah it’s your mockup! It was so simple and great, I had to use it!
Well I honestly think the editor doesn’t look that bad, especially on Windows. I worked a lot on making sure everything is as native as possible, but some things had to be custom. Like the toolbar. Could I use the Xojo toolbar? Sure I could. Would it look and work well? Definitely not.
If you mean specifically the form designer, yeah it doesn’t use the current theme of the user, but that’s something I didn’t spend more time than required for a POC. But if you drag the controls, it’s all native and looks very good!
In the end, it was a waste of time, but I also learned a lot, so I don’t regret the work I put into it. But making things clear to Geoff from the beginning would have definitely been the right thing to do.
[quote=244088:@Christoph De Vocht]You blurred the app name. Funny.
You are aware you are violating Xojo EULA? It is (strangely) not allowed to create an editor with Xojo code - never understand why though.
Or was it just a large exercise project? ;-)[/quote]
I have talked to Geoff and the app would in fact violate their EULA. It didn’t use Xojoscript, but it used the Xojo framework for the functionality.
I don’t completely agree with the EULA, don’t like limitations of ANY kind from a programming language, but that doesn’t mean I will not respect it.
The app was never sold or released. I have plans of a remake with something different than Xojo, but that’s not my main focus at the moment.
Yes I am talking about business apps… not anything funky trendy forgotten 2 years later…
[quote=244101:@Michel Bujardet]
In the Mac universe, since 1984, there has been major changes in system and processor on very regular basis, and still today, every two years or so, the system aesthetics change. [/quote]
Even the change from PowerPC to Intel was done without UI change at all. well for the most part of it https://youtu.be/ECyP5HL4it0
[quote=244101:@Michel Bujardet]
My point is very basic : new users accustomed to Web 2.00 and mobile will instinctively prefer UIs that remind them of their familiar apps and web sites. [/quote]
Not for business Apps MIchel. Sometimes Web and mobile UI is not really compatible with “desktop design”. Take a look to MS Office… no mobile or web UI in sight there.
[quote=244101:@Michel Bujardet]
Soon, Win32 apps will be able to go into the Windows Store. I frankly doubt programs designed with native controls will be able to perform well there without a major UI refactoring.[/quote]
I’ve lost my confidence on that. They will be put into tight sandboxes or VMs (the good point) but without any UI changes (the bad one). As said before: I am a visual guy. I want to look my Apps nice with native looking ribbons, title and menu bars and buttons. I do not care if Metro UI HTML Mix or Win32 or Win32+
[quote=244112:@Tomas Jakobs]@Michel Bujardet Soon, Win32 apps will be able to go into the Windows Store. I frankly doubt programs designed with native controls will be able to perform well there without a major UI refactoring.
I’ve lost my confidence on that. They will be put into tight sandboxes or VMs (the good point) but without any UI changes (the bad one). As said before: I am a visual guy. I want to look my Apps nice with native looking ribbons, title and menu bars and buttons. I do not care if Metro UI HTML Mix or Win32 or Win32+[/quote]
Windows Modern UI does not have “native controls” in the same sense as was the case before Metro. There is no such thing as native Ribbon, menu bars and menus in Modern UI.
It will fall on the developer to prepare his Win32 app so it looks and behaves like an UWP touch enabled app. Just like a web designer, the programmer will have to come up with his own controls.
Not putting this up as the epitome of style but Ive been playing with containercontrols today to see if I can do with those what i used to do in delphi … controls that resized themselves to their parent area.
I built a menu system based on subclassed listboxes, where a menu icon expands a menu style list.
Choosing from the list will change the contents of the toolbar area at the top.
In these shots, Ive just used fonts for the menus, and simple buttons on the toolbar
Does anyone have a ready rubbed source for better buttons for the toolbar?
Id like to be able to switch simply between the minimalist icons with borders that are on the Mac, or barely there at all icons such as used on Windows Metro.
So I need to know how to create these:
And use them on the toolbar area of something like this:
[quote=244165:@Jeff Tullin]Does anyone have a ready rubbed source for better buttons for the toolbar?
Id like to be able to switch simply between the minimalist icons with borders that are on the Mac, or barely there at all icons such as used on Windows Metro.
So I need to know how to create these:
[/quote]
In Windows 8 and 10, the absolute reference for icons is the Segoe MDL2 Assets font. It contains hundreds of icons. It is the equivalent of the Apple assets.
The buttons you copied can be created very easily in a canvas with the draw commands.
If I can make it ‘easy to amend’ I’ll throw it out there for people to play with.
At the moment, Im trying to decide where properties such as the back and selected colors should be stored.
And it needs a dynamic way to create toolbars… at the moment , I ‘know’ I need 3 so there are exactly 3 hard coded.
Need to make toolbar items that mutate based on the target.
Probably not going to happen. On Windows you’ll have to use that font, and on Mac you’re looking at the NSImage Constants. Which are two quite different ways of getting resolution independent icons…
Nope.
For the things I have in mind, neither of them have icons that will suit.
I couldnt begin to guess what many of the icons in the screenshot above are suggesting , anyway…
But my concern is trying to create a button-like object that is a container for something that looks at home based on the OS
rather like a normal button currently does, but something that works for a toolbar situation
[quote=244173:@Jeff Tullin]But my concern is trying to create a button-like object that is a container for something that looks at home based on the OS
rather like a normal button currently does, but something that works for a toolbar situation[/quote]
Funny. 
[/quote]
