Before you complain, what are the issues?
I just installed Xojo 2019r3.2 on the Ventura test VM.
Seems to work. I can load eddies electronics as an example project for both Web and Desktop and just run it.
If there are issues, it may be good to collect them and find solutions as I know quite a few users with Web 1 in use and they need to continue to do so.
I donât complain currently. I just collect informations. Thank you for your offer to help, we will come across when itâs needed.
As I said, technical support. Questions, etc.
The APIs can coexist because theyâre the same frameworks under the hood. With web, there would have had to have both the proprietary framework built in 2010 and jQuery/bootstrap side by side. Given the preponderance of people who like to mix old and new controls and then complain that they donât work together, iâm glad we didnât go that route.
The reality is that the web (and browsers) changed a lot in the 10 years between the versions and it was getting harder to give people what they wanted in the old framework. Starting over with bootstrap & jQuery meant that you got a modern, well tested framework out of the box.
Yes, thank you Christian, thatâs good news already. I donât see why Ventura would prevent Xojo from working normally for web 1 apps when by definition web apps are not built on top of system controls. And in my case for example, the compiled app is only for a Windows server. But I havenât followed the debates about the switch to Ventura.
Have others tried using Xojo 2019 with web projects?
I donât understand. In your blog post, you said that you would do everything possible to fix the problem if an OS or web browser update caused our web 1 apps to fail.
Now youâre just talking about support to answer questions, and you rule out doing an update of the latest production version of Xojo for web 1? But how are you going to do âwe will do what we can do to resolve the issueâ then?
Iâm not saying that for the Ventura update, maybe (probably even, I hope) there will be no problem. But I am very worried, because real problems can happen, and finally, I understand that there will be no update to the latest version of Xojo that allows building web apps 1.
I continue to pay every year my pro license, in order to help financing a possible update of this version in case of problem. Because I thought we were working in a positive and collaborative spirit. Some of our web apps took years and years to build (including mine). And itâs sometimes very difficult to switch to a new framework, I think you know that. Imagine that the IDE is built in web 1. Itâs not an ideological problem, I donât have any problem with the last versions of Xojo, itâs only a (big) financial problem.
Itâs more like Ventura would prevent Xojo from working normally at all than working normally for web 1 specifically. During the betas Ventura introduced a lot of crashes, Apple introduced instabilities and was fixing them during Ventura development, but at least ONE incompatibility exists and was caught and was fixed in Xojo R3.1.
If there is a major problem with Web 1, we may be able to patch something.
Either by Xojo Inc. releasing a fixed 2019r3 update or we fix something ourselves with a little patch.
The crux of that statement is âeverything possibleâ. Xojo is simply not set up to be able to go back in time and compile and release older versions of Xojo after a new major release has occurred. While it may be just a matter of going back to an d revision, other things have changed since then which often prevent it anyway. Things like the OS that your builders run on, the version of Xcode or visual studio that build the frameworks, the processor on a build system (they switched from Intel to M1s near the end of my time there). Replicating the conditions exactly enough to be able to build something comparable may just not be practical.
That is, frankly, very unfortunate.
I can only speak for our company, but we do anything to be able to jump back to any point in time for all our tools and programs. We have loads of Docker images and Git-branches for every single version of internal and even some external tools and we keep them until forever probably. This is part of our rollback strategy and I find it interesting that Xojo Inc. doesnât has something similar.
It is just good to know.
Canât you run it in UTM with Monterey if there are issues?
everything
Am I the only one who is shocked? Iâve never seen anything like this. I still canât believe it. It wasnât an intern who wrote this blog post. So he knew all this when he wrote this article intended only to reassure us. This is so sad.
Christian, do you think you can patch this version for almost any compatibility issue that may arise with the latest OS and web browsers? Or do we need to urgently upgrade or migrate our code before a big problem happens?
You mean you keep old versions of computers with old OSes running on them, sitting on the shelf in case an old version of something is needed? That is the only way I can imagine it being possible. You also have to have staff from those days who are familiar with all that (rarely used stuff).
This happens at my house too. I have a nice slide scanner and some nice software to run it, but unfortunately I have to go back 11 versions of macOS to find one that can run the software. There is no upgrade path from that company, for my scanner. Too bad, eh? I have to keep an old Mac Mini in a box with the scanner. The Mini has a Core 2 Duo and 2GB of RAM.
If an issue happens, we have to check why it happens and see what we can do.
This may include overwriting functions, wrapping calls with replacement functions or patching a class to redirect a method call.
You arenât. I lost my faith two years ago already. Others resigned as well or weâre even blocked from the forum until year 3000. The big â â â â storm is simply over already, and every of us knew that the day will come when Xojo Inc. wont held the promise they made in the blogpost. This is not really a surprise, its bad news though.
You better get rid of your Web 1 application sooner than later. The day will come when you wont be able to update your personal OS, when the OS of your Server has to be upgraded but cant run the app anymore or when Browsers changes things.
If you should âupgradeâ to Xojo web 2 after this experience, is another topic.
Exactly. We keep old Hardware (happened only once with the change to M1).
All other parts of our environments are containerized and we keep the containers in our registry until forever. Parts who arenât in containers are in Git repos so we can go back easily.
We do even keep Database-Structures. Each DB-Change is brought to production by a migration. Each migration step need a mandatory rollback script. So we can also go back in time with our data-structures.
A rollback to a version from two years ago needs effort, but its possible. And whenever we introduce vast braking changes, we keep a full image of that functionality even more accessible for us for fast rollback and testing purposes.
So yes, this is definitely doable and also required in most software/company certification processes (ISO 27001, DIN 9005 etc.). Thats why I was surprised, Xojo Inc. doesnât do anything similar.
The fact that you interpreted Geoffâs message differently than he intended isnât his fault.