IDE Questions - hope I didn't miss these

I just started toying with the new IDE and ran into a couple of things that I can’t figure out. I suspected that this would be more obvious, then again, maybe it’s just me.

Q1 - Is there some logic to the order that objects are displayed in the “navigator”? (I think this is the name of the objects that appear in your project. For example, if I expand the Windows, there doesn’t seem to be a way to order (sort) the list of windows in my project. Am I missing something? (BTW, I know I can search but this seems like the long way around… especially if you can’t remember what the object name beings with… we’re dealing with a very large project.)

Q2 - If I double click a Window in the navigator, why is it I still need to click on “layout” to get the object to show in the code window. I know I can click the icon above the code window to display the code or layout, but why doesn’t it just default to opening the layout when you double click an object, such as a Window?

Q3 - It would be nice if there was a button that allowed you to expand the code window (hide the left (navigator) and right (library/inspector) sides of the screen). There’s a button to hide the inspector now, but it would be helpful if you could do the same for both sides of the screen with 1 button. Sometimes, we spend hours writing code in an event and need as much space as possible. And we’re working on Apple cinema displays (27"). Is there any way to increase the size of the code window?

Q4 - Is it me, or is the navigator really slow? I expand the Windows folder - of which there are about 100 windows - and then I click on a window about 20 down… 1 second delay and then you can actually see the highlight move down one-by-one to the window that I clicked on. For reference, I’m working on a 2012 2.6 ghz, i7, Macbook Pro with 16 gigs of RAM.

I want to like the new IDE, but at this point, it seems like a real productivity killer.

Forgot one.

Q5 - If you add an event to a Window, is there no longer a way to tell if there is code in the event or method? In RS2012r2, if an event or method had code in it, it was bolded. It seems like now if you add an event, you can no longer determine this without displaying it.

I think the idea is that you only have an event shown if it has code. But I don’t believe it goes away if you subsequently decide to delete that code. As for the other points, many of us long-time users of RB/RS are asking the same things.

[quote=23915:@John Fatte]Forgot one.

Q5 - If you add an event to a Window, is there no longer a way to tell if there is code in the event or method? In RS2012r2, if an event or method had code in it, it was bolded. It seems like now if you add an event, you can no longer determine this without displaying it.[/quote]

In RS if an event had code (or ANY text) it was called in the exe and not if it did not.

In Xojo if you add an event it will be called in the exe REGARDLESS of if it has code in it or not, so adding an event when you don’t need it adds overhead. My guess is that because you had to explicitly add the event, they did not think it needed to be bolded when it has code in it…

But you can add multiple events with the intent to add code later… so having it bolded if it has code would still be useful

While the navigator makes it impractical , I likes the old way of having all events visible and being able to hide those without code… Seeing all the events in the class helps me think about how to code things.

Q1 - No, there’s no sort function. You have to manually rearrange the items the way you want.

Q2 - Are you talking about double-clicking to open in a new tab, or double-clicking to only display that object and its children in the Navigator? (there’s a preference setting to control this) Either way, I don’t see the behavior you’re describing. Could you explain it further?

Q3 - Yep, many have made similar remarks. I think they may be addressing it for the next version.

Q4 - The larger and more complex your project is, the slower it gets. I have one window with lots and lots of controls that takes several seconds to appear after clicking on it. After viewing it once it gets better when coming back to it, but it’s still slower than other simpler windows. I was using an older Core 2 Duo Macbook and thought it was just the hardware. But now I have the exact same one as you, and though it is a little faster, it still takes a few seconds to initially show that window.

Q5 - Karen answered it perfectly, though I do see the benefit of only adding events you really need. I suggested a preference setting so you can choose which way you like it, but that will probably require a lot of work, therefore won’t be implemented anytime soon, if at all.

No - what you want for sorting may be undesirable for someone else
You can MANUALLY rearrange things and I’d strongly encourage the use of folder so you can impose what ever arrangement you want.

Good question - there’s probably a feature request there

Hiding the navigator has been requested a few times and we’ve tried to do something about it for the next release

FWIW a lot of people just turn the animations off

[quote=23915:@John Fatte]
Q5 - If you add an event to a Window, is there no longer a way to tell if there is code in the event or method? In RS2012r2, if an event or method had code in it, it was bolded. It seems like now if you add an event, you can no longer determine this without displaying it.[/quote]
This has more to do with making different project type consistent than anything.
For a desktop app there’s no harm in having a lot of methods “implemented” - even if they have nothing but a comment or no code in them.
For a web app this is a HUGE hit as EVERY implemented event adds to the amount of data sent from the browser to the back end server & vice versa. And it isn’t a matter of “well it has no useful code” - just “does the event exist” is all it takes.
So we tried to make developing a web app and a desktop app more similar - and that means you need to add events since this literally amounts to “I’ve implemented this event even if it does NOTHING”
Hence adding an event means - in a web app - that some data will be sent to the browser or from the browser when that event happens. Whether the code does anything is irrelevant.

So if the event is in the list it’s “implemented” - there may be no code in it

Ah, yes, It’s been so long since I turned it off (early betas of R1) that I completely forgot about it. This will definitely help John’s slowness.

[quote=23926:@Karen Atkocius]In RS if an event had code (or ANY text) it was called in the exe and not if it did not.
[/quote]
Actually the IDE tried to be smarter - and it mostly works for desktop apps. If there was ANYTHING in there it was “implemented” so it would show in bold. So you could implement something by putting // in the method or event.
It fails for web apps though. The framework sends the event from the browser to the server IF there is ANTYHING in there (or vice versa if appropriate)
And so putting // in an event is a killer because the event gets raised just to do nothing and you’ve increased th amount of traffic between the server & the client for nothing.
We don’t want web & desktop apps to be radically different from each other to implement - so you add events in both cases in the same way and it means the exact same thing in both type of apps.

So now in both cases you need to just look at the list of implemented events and thats what exists

Thank you for the replies. I can’t believe some of the answers… come on, you mean I have to sort my own objects in the navigator? What are we, not programmers for pete’s sake. And the reply that some people may not like them sorted … please… create a preference for that and the problem is solved. Everybody’s happy. But manually sorting does NOT cut it.

If I presented my users with an update to my software that no longer allowed them to sort something that was previously sortable, I’d never hear the end of it. That should be fixed YESTERDAY! Searching does not work for windows and classes… heck we could do that in RS and I never once resorted to that.

BTW, we do use Folders, but just for logical groups. We prefer to use naming conventions for our windows that relate to options in our software so it is easier to find them and make fixes/changes. So much for all that with xojo.

The rest of the answers that I received makes it sound like “practiced” answers. I really think it’s time to take a hard look at what the “users” want and make changes for the better. I can’t believe we waited for this long for something that - in my opinion - is a step backwards.

[quote=23935:@Norman Palardy]And so putting // in an event is a killer because the event gets raised just to do nothing and you’ve increased th amount of traffic between the server & the client for nothing.
[/quote]
I really don’t see the problem with the old way… We knew if it was implemented if it it was bold… If that was NOT was true for the WE (I thought it was -It’s been awhile since I used it) I would have rather it worked the same as the desktop.

There’s a feedback request for a sortable Navigator (link below). This is a sorely missed feature in Xojo compared to the old IDE… Yes I already use folders to organize things, but want a way to sort the contents of those folders. I don’t want to waste time dragging and dropping to sort everything manually. Seems like an odd oversight to me… One simple menu command or right-click option would do the trick.

Here’s the feedback link if you want to sign on:
feedback://showreport?report_id=25482