I totally understand Dave’s decision. I didn’t renew in September and have no plans to renew. Maybe in a few years when Xojo ticks a few items off the roadmap.
It really comes down to Xojo note being able to ship, fix bugs on a timely basis. And that worries me about the future of Xojo.
[quote=483229:@Hal Gumbert]I totally understand Dave’s decision. I didn’t renew in September and have no plans to renew. Maybe in a few years when Xojo ticks a few items off the roadmap.
It really comes down to Xojo note being able to ship, fix bugs on a timely basis. And that worries me about the future of Xojo.[/quote]
Exactly,
It is entirely your prerogative, Dave.
But don’ be surprised if that creates a discussion.
I don’t see why I should abandon my apps because of API 2.00. In the past, I kept for instance RS 2007 for a couple years because I could not afford a new license (remember the 2008 crash ?). The sky did not fall on my head.
After all, buyers could not care less about which language an app is created with, as long as it serves its purpose.
Add ons and classes are another story. Although I don’t loathe API 2.00 as much as some around here, it is unfamiliar, and I have to look up the LR regularly because of the changes. I have been actively procrastinating to update RubberViews 
Apps - no one will care if you used Xojo or something else to build the app
But add ons for xojo other devs do ask about “when are you going to support API 2 ?”
I’m sure you know this already
And why you get things like
https://graffitisuite.com/news/from-anthony-lets-talk-api-2-0/
https://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/2020/01/databases-and-xojo-api-2-0-and-why-im-not-using-it-yet/
https://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/2019/11/ruminations-on-api-2-0/
reverting the events was only part of the pain (see my post abovea about dealing with properties & shadowing)
Trust me I get WHY they want API 2 but the pain for developers that sell components & addons is a big hurdle
And that worries me about how many will make that leap or just say “To hell with it not worth the trouble” ?
Frankly, given the few sales, I rather spend my time on MAS apps…
Right - and for that no one cares what you used really
There is a big difference between apps sales to consumers and tool / add on sales to devs
Or at least no one cares what version of Xojo you used and if API 1 or 2 – provided your builds can still run correctly on their machine and OS level. And Apple makes that increasingly hard when you are compiling against older SDKs. So at some point you have no real choice, at least beyond controlled and limited distribution users.
It may also be a stretch to say “no one cares if you used Xojo or something else”. After all, I think that was the primary reason the name even changed to Xojo.
[quote=483357:@Douglas Handy]Or at least no one cares what version of Xojo you used and if API 1 or 2 – provided your builds can still run correctly on their machine and OS level. And Apple makes that increasingly hard when you are compiling against older SDKs. So at some point you have no real choice, at least beyond controlled and limited distribution users.
[/quote]
folks that buy your app dont care - or even know - what you used
One big reason if you go into the way back machine - the previous name “Real Studio” was horrid to search since if you put “Real Studio” into google etc you would never find it - you’d get musicians etc talking about going into a “real studio” to record etc
So they picked a name they could own - Xojo
https://www.xojo.com/company/press/xojo_name.php
And with REALBasic, you had the obvious negative connotations associated with BASIC, and people started saying things like “you’re real basic”.
Personally, I think Xojo is making a mistake when they try to distance themselves from BASIC. They should embrace it. They should flip the stereotype on its head and advertise themselves as the BASIC we’ve been waiting for. Because at the end of the day they are a dialect of BASIC and unless that fact changes they’re only feeding a stereotype that holds them back.
Wow, for drama queens this thread can count! Please, what do you all think about the future of Xojo in this already overcrowded multi-platform world?
The true danger for Xojo is not the language BASIC they are based on but people leaving the environment for whatever reason. In the end, customers are paying the development and salaries for a company. When sales drop too low, the company is in problems.
Xojo is indeed a tool worth saving, but threads like this one do not help on the contrary.
Xojo needs to work to save it itself. We are customers, we invest in a product that is required to support our livelyhood, or or hobby. But if Xojo refuses to listen, refuses to fix long standing issues in favor of trying to distract “new customers” with a shiny widget … then THAT defines the problem. To borrow a recent analogy … "Xojo 2019r2.1 and beyond is their “VISTA”… and Vista is what caused me to abandon Windows.
So its not “drama queens”… it is concerned customers still attempting to make enough noise for Xojo to hear before it is too late
[quote=483378:@Chris Verberne]The true danger for Xojo is not the language BASIC they are based on but people leaving the environment for whatever reason. In the end, customers are paying the development and salaries for a company. When sales drop too low, the company is in problems.
Xojo is indeed a tool worth saving, but threads like this one do not help on the contrary.[/quote]
This.
I don’t want to rewrite any of my existing code (especially desktop) to another platform unless / until Xojo doesn’t exist or can’t compile my software updates for existing code to run on then current machines. And I sincerely hope that never comes soon.
Even if their focus is not the top of my wish list, I have a very vested interest in seeing the company survive long term. To that end, it seems counterproductive to not keep renewing my license even if my shipping code is still using a former release. I very much like the potential for Xojo. To say those of us who are serious developers should cut them off at the knees until they get there seems penny-wise and nickel-foolish.
The annual cost of a renewal, including all the add-ons I do, would be quickly dwarfed by the effort needed to jump ship.
Some of us have felt that way for almost 20 years… how long can something still really have that potential but not realize it?
-karen
Years ago there were complaints that Xojo was not consistent. Some things were zero based, others were 1 based. Many things were named inconsistently. Users, old and new complained. Xojo tried to fix it with “xojo.” framework and started with IOS. This would allow you to use the new framework at your leisure. Nobody liked this approach. Many users, old especially, complained. So, Xojo listened, gave up and deprecated the “Xojo” framework. Do you realize how much money they invested in that? All that money was thrown away for one reason: The user base did not like the approach. They listened to the users.
However, they were not content to leave the language inconsistent. They are trying a different approach with API 2.0. This time they tried to fix everything without requiring us to use a new namespace and without breaking everything. I think they succeeded. Yes, some things are broke, but not everything. API 2 is really good, depending on your perspective. If you have a large API 1 project with lots of string processing, you will have a lot of work to do to convert to API 2. But if you have a new project, you will get the hang of API 2 within about 2 weeks and then it is natural. We are converting everything to API 2 and we have some really large projects.
The way technology changes, in perpetuity perhaps.
Sorry… but I don’t drink Kool-aid. I have been in this business WAY too long for that…
Personally, I am NOT buying into the disaster named “API2”… if you consider it so or not is up to you.
but in my opinion, Xojo has f’d up big time (take a look at the prominent developers that have already left)
But as to this thread. It was meant to be a single posting to inform my potential add-on customers of my intentions, and not to become a triad for or against the current direction Xojo has decided to take.
So for those of you wishing to support Xojo in this at any cost… to you I wish good luck
For the rest that will be cutting back, remaining with 2019r1.1 or leaving completely… to you I wish good luck
I think Xojo has matured a lot since I started using RealBasic. There will always be more potential no matter which particular improvements get made. If it still only supported what it did when I began using the product, I’d feel different now. But they ARE doing things and I won’t fault them for focusing on things that are not the top of MY wish list.
And actually, I think even the Xojo 2019R2.x was them intending to address concerns, even if it didn’t turn out the way we wanted. But again to their credit, they listened again and probably some of the delays we are seeing on other fronts reflect the time it takes to right a ship and stay the course. I don’t see it as a collision course unless they can’t sell enough licenses to fund continued development. Which of us in our careers have not developed code that in hindsight was not the ideal implementation?
Note that my comments are just my opinion, and are from the standpoint of a developer who has existing customer code that I don’t want to port to something else. I totally get how that viewpoint is not the same as a hobbyist or situation where there is not an investment in existing code to maintain.
Well you do not know what it TOOK to MAKE them listen… Months of them telling various people they were wrong, they were stupid, and Xojo “knows what is best”… The very fact that they insulted developers (to their face) shows how wrong they can be… Do you want Cherry or LemonLime?