Can Xojo become the better Electron?

Personal I see a lot of potential for Xojo. But only if they follow the mainstream. The stream being not only Apple!
It looks like the EOL for Windows is nearly there. (MS-Azure is already running on linux) The consequence of that being that Unix has won the OS battle. And Linux being the workforce of the mobile Internet. With Apple being its posh brother.
On the UI site the CSS clearly is winning. Look at what you can do with Gnome today. Linux-distributions can be real chameleons looking like Windows 8,9,10; MacOS; Android; iOS …
What can Xojo learn from : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_(software_framework)?
And how can Xojo (the basic like language) step by step made like Python (the mainstream coding for students today)?
If Xojo finds a path out the legacy entanglement, it can have a bright future.

Electron is not future ready yet. As with PWA apps these seem to stay behind. While electron is capable of alot, as you might know a good UI framework base on the OS level works better for developers. Look at iOs for example, your build apps are pretty tiny while you may have lot’s of code in it. This is because Apple provides all of this. Electron apps also give an end-user a completely different UI experience for alsmost every app made in it. It’s just like the web, it has too much possibilities. This isn’t making it easier for end-users to use it as they expect.

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You are right! That’s why my title is ‘the better Electron’.
I just wanted to post a strategic concept and use Electron as an example. Not for technical discussion.

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I understand what you meant, you can already make an electron based on xojo. HTMLViewer on desktop is really powerfull. But do you want to do this on a non-opensource tool?

I know.

I just wish Xojo to get out of their legacy entanglement, so we can catch up with the market. Or we need to start looking for alternatives. (what we don’t like to do).

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The transition from Windows to Linux will take a VERY long time if it will ever happen. Xojo is in the know of what’s to come for platforms, they are not just sitting and waiting. I won’t expect Xojo to move towards all latest (non-stable) platform features like (linux-css) so quickly. But they do know about this, there was a talk on some of the XDC (video?) about the css on linux i believe.

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Yup. I really hate Windows for instance, but who cares? My customers definitely not … as much as I do agree that more and more app will most likely move to the web we still have a long way to go. Start ups and creative businesses are more flexible, but traditonal businesses are still locked into the Windows (aka Microsoft ecosystem). As such some are even still (silly but …) happy with Windows 7. That’s why I second every post here on he forum begging for more love for the Windows look and feel of the compiled apps and an improved performance of the apps on Windows.

Catching up with the market and being in a leader position and defining a new standard is always a good idea and something to target, but I believe a lot of developer with Xojo are using the tool to be fast and efficient on many core platforms, rather than jumping on or targeting the next possible "one more thing … ".

Windows will not disappear fast but the underlying NT architecture is disappearing already. Microsoft is the master of expectation management using technology. Don’t be surprised about the Linux distribution by MS called Windows working like Windows in the near future.
The reality is that Web and Android are market leaders and Xojo is dragging behind. I just wanted to paint a vision on a potential bright future for Xojo if they focus on the right developments.

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I agree! But I bet the csv export of their “tools” will probably continue not be comma separated values ;-). I only hope that a Linux-based WIndows will still show a blue screen of death. I am too old to adapt to a new color :-).

On a more serious note: in the past 20 years Xojo was good in adapting to changes, they were only sometimes slow, or even very slow (unfortunately). But then again: according to Google Android is dead and Fuchsia or whatever else is the future. Problem: we haven’t seen much other than announcements and rumors. Fuchsia would probably not be a big change for endusers, but for RAD tool developers like Xojo it might very well be a big step to adapt … and first we would need Android to be available (talking again about speed).

I agree with you that i will get more complex and consequently more difficult to predict the future and changes under the hood of operating systems are happening faster by every year but on the other hand there will most likely be APIs or similar tools to ensure a transition. No vendor can really afford to start completly from scratch. But who knows: perhaps we might see a complete new platform in a few years.

Yes indeed. I agree. But I know of a few .NET based RAD tools bypassing Xojo today already. I don’t like them because of Microsoft and because the resulting apps are not up to my standards. Additional I have invested in Xojo based development the past 6 years and don’t want to start all over again.
I just hope they catch up. And wanted to express my hope with my post.

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Same here. Plus(!): I lost a lot of time in the past trying to find a better tool. Sometimes just because a customer explicitly asked to use a specific tool, but sometimes as well because I thought that another tool might be better. And some are, no doubts but none is so helpful than Xojo on so many platforms. So I just gave up fighting a few years ago to fight that battle … of course it is still important to see how the market is developing, but I currently think that Xojo is on the right path.

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Google hasn’t helped me answer this question, so I’ll just ask. What on Earth are you talking about Windows being end of life and switching to Linux?

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They won’t do that so soon. He probably means windows allows bash (basicly a plain linux server) to run inside of windows. This is just to get more linux developers to use windows as their main dev platform. MacOS has a terminal that is practically the same as linux where many commands already could be run as equal as in linux.

But having the “WINDOWS” actual desktop on linux… i won’t see that happen soon. It may be that he has seen a linux distro that actually is a 1-1 the same as windows 10. But that’s basicly just themeing as far as i know…

Source: TechRadar.com

Windows 10 is experiencing a spectacularly bad run of faulty updates recently, and if you’ve had enough, then Windows 12 Lite is promising to fix those issues.

Now, we should say straight away that this is not an official release from Microsoft. Instead, it appears to be a modified version of the Linux Lite 4.8 LTS distro made to look like Windows 10 with the default background wallpaper and custom icons.

If he means this one, it’s just a linux… not from MS itself.

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Don’t take it too technical. I try to paint what I believe are strategic (long term) developments Xojo should take into consideration to catch up.

In my experience, Apple’s versions of the common commands have just enough differences to make them frustrating.

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There are rumors for years that Microsoft might “under the hood” switch to a LinuxSystem. So basically like macOS has its Unix-based foundation under the hood. Those rumors are fired by Microsoft using Linux systems for their Azure products … As with rumors: this might happen, it might even happen “all the sudden” with a new release, but there will always be a transition period and I don’t expect it any time soon. And if it will come it would either be a complete new product or it has to be backwards compatible. Won’t be easy for Microsoft to throw their decade old foundation into the bin :slight_smile:

Azure using Linux is simply because Linux makes better servers. I have no idea why people would think this is some sort of indication that Windows would be making any such change. Microsoft has a VERY hard time letting go of their past. I personally wouldn’t care of Windows makes the switch. But I don’t see it happening.

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I wasn’t the messenger nor the OP :slight_smile: . All I said is that “I would not be surprised” … Because NOTHING really surprises me any longer. For instance I fully understand why Apple is now moving to Silicone, but I would not be surprised if they won’t drop x386 completely after 2 years. Perhaps they might have 1-2 devices for intel lovers left.

Back to MS: I fully agree with you that it would be very, very hard for them. On top of that it would probably be the first time that they really care about the architecture underneath their OS :slight_smile:

I’m not so sure. WSL2, mssql running on Linux and in docker. Dot net core is to be cross platform.
If they happened to release XP source by ‘accident’
And the folks at wine get everything sorted

You might well see a new ‘windows OS’ as a window manager atop Linux that can handle win32 properly. It’s maybe not that big a stretch.

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