explications = explanations. Sorry.
Right, I know what the initial explanation was, but it was misleading. Emile has confirmed a bundle document type, and its behavior, is what is desired.
I’ve just gone through something similar with our MSDN liaison for a project and - simply put - Windows does not support the idea of “Bundles” and to usurp normal, expected Folder operations within Explorer would be bad. While I’m not worried about selling through the Windows app store, such a “hack” (his word) would be cause for a submitted application to be disqualified.
A mention of DropBox and Google Drive was made above - both of these are simply folders with custom icons. When the user double clicks either, the appropriate folder opens, not a custom application.
One company (StarDock) that has does done something in this vein actually created their own desktop to replace Explorer. I suspect that this is not something that Emile would want to undertake.
Summary - There is no way on Windows to create a folder that works like a file under Explorer.
[quote=105123:@Tim Jones]A mention of DropBox and Google Drive was made above - both of these are simply folders with custom icons. When the user double clicks either, the appropriate folder opens, not a custom application.
[/quote]
User opens app, app opens window. That is what happens with Google drive. In the chain of actions, the app acts only as a shortcut of sorts between the double click and the opening of the folder.
In the batch example I posted, it simply opens the folder and then the app.
No. YOUR word. Never called that a hack because it is not one. A shell at best in the case of the app. And normal use as far as the batch file goes.
That is true. But am not sure it has anything to do with the OP question.
Use of a folder icon for a program (even customized) seems to be against some sort of religious belief, so let us leave it at that.
We are sure. Emile has confirmed that.
I know Thom, you wrote it twice, now. BUNDLES DO NOT EXIST IN WINDOWS ! Do you want it repeated 100 times or 1000 with a for next loop ?
The OP also asked if he could have a folder open an app at the same time under Windows, which happens to be possible without a bundle. Maybe this forum would be nicer if it was a little less Mac-centrically hostile to Windows users ?
[quote=105132:@Michel Bujardet]I know Thom, you wrote it twice, now. BUNDLES DO NOT EXIST IN WINDOWS ! Do you want it repeated 100 times or 1000 with a for next loop ?
The OP also asked if he could have a folder open an app at the same time under Windows, which happens to be possible without a bundle. Maybe this forum would be nicer if it was a little less Mac-centrically hostile to Windows users ?[/quote]
See, that’s not the point I’m arguing anymore. What I’m trying to say is that you are offering a solution to the wrong problem. Emile did not ask for a behavior, and we are saying bundles are the solution. Emile asked for bundles. The language barrier caused the description to come out oddly, which was a little confusing, but that doesn’t change what was asked for. Using a shortcut to an app that looks like a folder is a perfectly acceptable option if that is what the poster wants. But it isn’t. We’re talking about documents here. I fully understand your solution. But it simply isn’t what Emile is looking for.
[quote=104981:@Michel Bujardet]What a shame indeed. As usual, there seems to be a fair amount of Mac prejudice at work here. Because a specific under the hood feature like the bundle does not exist in Windows does not mean the metaphor cannot be emulated. I find it rather harsh to say a feature cannot be achieved just because it is Windows.
What do you want to achieve, Emile ? If I understood right, double click on a folder opens both the folder content and an associated app. This is possible the way I described above without bundle. If you want, I can create a small Windows project to demonstrate.
S’il est besoin d’expliquer plus en détails, je suis à ta disposition en canal Français :)[/quote]
Windows has no notion like “bundle”
Maybe try giving a directory an extension on Windows and then associate that extension with an app which may work - I have no idea
[quote=105129:@Michel Bujardet]User opens app, app opens window. That is what happens with Google drive. In the chain of actions, the app acts only as a shortcut of sorts between the double click and the opening of the folder.
[/quote]
Right but Emile wants “user opens folder and that causes app to open” not the other way round
[quote=104560:@Emile Schwarz]Hi,
… so when I click in that “folder”, my application is run and open that said “folder”.
[/quote]
[quote=105129:@Michel Bujardet]
No. YOUR word. Never called that a hack because it is not one. A shell at best in the case of the app. And normal use as far as the batch file goes.[/quote]
Not my word - my MSDN liaison’s word. In Microsoft’s eyes, anything that changes the way a basic element - such as a folder - works when it is double clicked / opened is a “hack” and not supported. We’re not being religious or anti-Windows on this point. While a developer may be able to hack such a solution, it is non-standard and against Microsoft’s design ideals.
In your batch file example, the folder is opening as a folder and THEN executing a batch file that runs the application – this is not the same as the way a bundle works on OS X. On OS X, a bundle does not show up as a folder and can’t be looked into by double clicking. This one really is an Apple thing and it has no matching paradigm on Windows or Linux.
The word “heck” in that first paragraph should have been “hack”
Why can’t we edit theses things?
[quote=105144:@Norman Palardy]Windows has no notion like “bundle”
Maybe try giving a directory an extension on Windows and then associate that extension with an app which may work - I have no idea[/quote]
Does not work.
[quote=105146:@Norman Palardy]Right but Emile wants “user opens folder and that causes app to open” not the other way round
[/quote]
This is exactly what the batch does.
Alright. Maybe I have struck a nerve and keep forgetting mental barriers are everywhere. Sorry.
On Mac, a bundle can contain a program or data, and be seen as a file that opens with an application.
On Windows, no such thing. So without hurting sensibilities, could a batch file such as the one I posted be considered a solution ? Yes, Microsoft has just as Apple some very precise guidelines as to what is acceptable in terms of user interface, and using a plain, out of the box folder icon is not possible. But what about a customized folder image that cannot be mistaken with the system one ? Here is an example :
Would such an icon be mistaken with the regular folders ? It is not anymore a basic element and should not be expected to behave as such.
The fundamental problem here is that the batch file does not contain the document data. A shortcut or batch file, neither will work anywhere close to the same way. If a user drags that to a usb stick and moves it to another computer, whatever data it was pointing to did not come with it.
Yes, shortcuts can make something that appears to be a folder open an app. That is not what Emile is looking for.
It is quite permissible to provide custom folder icons for Windows folders and we do it all the time. But, that doesn’t change the fact that opening the “folder” results in a new Explorer window showing the contents of the folder.
The manner in which a folder as bundle works on OS X when double clicked is that the appropriate application is opened and the bundle that was double clicked is selected within the opened application. The bundle folder is NOT opened on the desktop. That is the difference between what Email is asking for and what your batch file solution provides.
[quote=105164:@Thom McGrath]The fundamental problem here is that the batch file does not contain the document data. A shortcut or batch file, neither will work anywhere close to the same way. If a user drags that to a usb stick and moves it to another computer, whatever data it was pointing to did not come with it.
Yes, shortcuts can make something that appears to be a folder open an app. That is not what Emile is looking for.[/quote]
You are a better telepath than me, as he has not reappeared since to explain what he wants exactly. As for the fact that data is not copyable as is, you are right of course. Nothing impossible to do with a copyto or shell to cp, though.
Just stretch all so slightly your imagination and see that the batch can provide the called program with the same kind of informations that a bundle would to a Mac app. I made it open the folder for demonstration purposes.
Now I don’t see why I have to be Don Qixote in this discussion. Frankly, it is becoming tiresome and I don’t give a damn about what happens to Emile app who should not even hope any help on Windows, as it seems. I shall cater to my own projects and stop waisting time defending stupid ideas nobody wants to hear about. Sorry for the trouble, and thank you 
[quote=105153:@Tim Jones]The word “heck” in that first paragraph should have been “hack”
Why can’t we edit theses things?[/quote]
Not sure
Right Here:
[quote=104960:@Emile Schwarz]As far as I recall, FCP (Final Cut Pro and childs ) use a folder to save a the contents of a project.
Nota: I never used FCP nor saw any of its project(s) file(s).
Oh ! EyeTV use that too: the .eyetv files holds three xml files, one mp4 and two tiff images (the current image in two resolutions: standard and retina).[/quote]
These programs are using bundle document types. He is asking to do whatever they do.
Right, because asking the user to “not forget to copy the batch file AND the data folder” is practical. It completely defeats the purpose, which was to keep everything together without the user having to worry about the internals.
I’m really not sure either. A simple “oh, I misunderstood the problem” response would have sufficed and we’d all be happy. There is no Mac vs. Windows bias here. It is simple fact that Windows cannot emulate bundles. To state otherwise misunderstands what bundles are and what they are used for.
Wasn’t sure if that would or not
The person has to run the batch file - not just open the folder no ?
A “bundle” is treated as though it is a single file
An application is a bundle and when you double click it the OS starts the exe inside it
No special requirements for the end user
And a folder can be a bundle so it appears to the end user as a single item but is actually a directory structure with lord knows what inside)
But double clicking it will get the OS to open the app that is designated as an editor for it.
Pages documents are this way
[quote=105160:@Michel Bujardet]
On Windows, no such thing. So without hurting sensibilities, could a batch file such as the one I posted be considered a solution ? Yes, Microsoft has just as Apple some very precise guidelines as to what is acceptable in terms of user interface, and using a plain, out of the box folder icon is not possible. But what about a customized folder image that cannot be mistaken with the system one ? Here is an example :
Would such an icon be mistaken with the regular folders ? It is not anymore a basic element and should not be expected to behave as such.[/quote]
The issue here is that the “data” directory is still just a normal directory that is easily browsed into but the user - its not just that you could / could not set up a batch file. Thats not true on the Mac and hence why bundles are nice esp for things that her perceive as “one item”.
On Windows MS has opted for the docx format for similar functionality in Word - its a zip file in reality so they can store lots of different elements in a format that to the end user is still a single file.
I think to get the “single file” experience on windows you
- use a database with the right extension
- use a zip file or something similar
I’m not aware of any other options
OK. So if I want to open a folder and in the same action open an app to work on it, it is a sin to do that in Windows ? Life does exists out of Mac OS X bundles you know …
No, it’s not a sin at all. But that’s like telling somebody to get an oil change when they’re craving watermelon: it has nothing to do with the problem at hand.