A Modest Proposal

Case: 23204 - Possibility to create .dll .so and .dylib dynamic libraries for use with any Desktop, console and web application realstudio made or not.
<https://xojo.com/issue/23204>

Case: 1069 - Create plug-ins for Xojo in Xojo
<https://xojo.com/issue/1069>

Both of these could help this ecosystem.

Num # 12 on the xojo roadmap… Roadmap — Xojo documentation

I wish (though it’ll never happen) I could bundle code and views together in a load-at-runtime format, similar to a nib file.

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Yeah sounds good, but if possible i’d like it to be text-based for easy git reviews…:wink:

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Xojo strongly believes and frequently states that if users are not reporting issues that there is no problem.

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This has being the xojo way for years. “Its fine”, “Its only you”, “Its the OS”, “Every one else is happy with it”, “we know best”, “its by design”

Sometimes looks like they dont have the expertice to realize that they have a problem. Like in the poor drawing on windows, they said it was the OS until someone told them what they were doing wrong.

But many users have also stated they got tired of being ignored and stop reporting issues

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It would be more accurate to say that like any software developer, we can only fix bugs we know about, can reproduce and are in code that is ours. Sometimes the bug is in the underlying OS for example. Then we have to prioritize them which typically (but not always) means those that impact the greatest number of users and are difficult or impossible to workaround come before bugs that appear to be impacting just a few users and are very easy to workaround. Each bug is somewhere on that spectrum.

I know it’s frustrating to come across a bug that is causing you grief and be the only one who is reporting it or be unable to reproduce it in a simple project. We run into these as well. Just know that we are not willfully ignoring anyone. We are simply working through all that needs to be done in the order that makes the most sense to us based upon the needs of the user base as a whole. This is almost certainly the same logic that nearly all software developers use to decide what to tackle next. We have all experienced the difficulty of juggling competing priorities.

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One addition to this; i know a lot of xojo (license holders) that do NOT if ever use feedback but still have common issues. So there is room for improvement here. Even if an issue could be reported directly from within the IDE it would already help (simple form or such). Making things easy is gonna make things better, since overall less time to waste means more activity in things that are less of a priority.

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The form exists. If the IDE crashes, you get a form to submit the bug. It is added to the ticket system, which is called Feedback.
You need the Feedback app to read responses to your ticket and answer additional questions.
I think already the link similar cases together as often two users submit details, which together can give a clue on what is wrong.

Nope, such form does not. The form you mean is a dialog that request if you want to report and then opens feedback on crashes. I mean a form that opens when i want to report something (feature, bug etc).

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Agreed. It’s more akin to negligence than malice.

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No, it’s not. We are not ignoring anything or anyone. We generally review cases quickly and respond when we need more information. We may not be able to fix a bug that’s annoying you as quickly as you’d like because as I said, we have to prioritize just as you do. If you’re able to quickly fix every bug in your own code then congratulations are in order but I suspect that Xojo is several orders of magnitude larger and more complex than your project.

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To follow up, Tim wrote a new post about his use of Xojo just today: Xojo: Looking Back, and Looking Forward

I want to say I really appreciate his opinion, his fairness and his continued support of Xojo. Tim is right, the Xojo team are people and, like all people, we are not perfect. But we love what we do, and we love Xojo and we are dedicated to it and work really hard to continually improve it.

“People who are good to each other make each other good” If you want to see Xojo improve, be a positive member in this community :slight_smile:

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lol that is only for Bugs that crash the IDE, not all kind of bugs. When a FC is created this way, gets a “you have to provide EXACT steps to reeproduce this bug or it will be closed in 10 days”. (So, looks like the automatic report with debug data is worth nothing) then, if the user dont have the feedback app to explain exactly how to crash the IDE the report will be closed. And even if steps are provided, I have 100% of those automatic reports closed as “not reproducible”

That’s because quite often, they aren’t.

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The problem with all of these “types” of threads is everyone is judging Xojo against their own standard instead of what competitive products exists in the marketplace.

Is Xojo perfect? Absolutely not, but you will not find a single product out there that is. If it did or was even much better than Xojo, the free market would work, and Xojo would go out of business. Yet, they are still here. Everyone knows they’re a small company with limited resources taking on a big and complex task. Love it or leave it.

At some point you just have to decide if the product is right for you and if not, move on. Some developers have moved on and names were mentioned above, but those are 5 or 6 data points Xojo’s customer base. Are they important, of course they are, every customer is. For one of those names, the decision to stop doing consulting based on their own blog post had significant other factors involved besides Xojo (Healthcare, the difficulty of consulting as a whole). Consulting is a tough business and I get it.

Let me know when you find a better product and I’ll cancel my Xojo subscription. Until then I’m being productive and getting stuff done with Xojo.

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I dont think @Jay_Menna or almost any other would said that renaming keywords, with all the IDE and compiler changes needed then rewriting the documentation, was more important than Bug Fixes or actual improvements.

Positivism is way to relative. In other forums the owners ask for real feedback, they see hard criticism as a POSITIVE thing, usually post new ideas and those geet discarded or changed with the comunity input way before changes. Here a small grout take the decition, even if the user says it is a bad idea are ignored, the “feature is implemented” and whe had releases that have to ve retired because xojo didnt listen that renaming current events was a bad idea.

But well, if xojo wants “everithig is awesome” kind of positivity, its ok, its your product, you decide how to run your bussiness.

many users leaving, many users complaining, maybe all are just trolls and you are right in everithing.

To be honest I am absolutely sick of people hijacking threads to push their personal attacks on Xojo and fellow users. No product is perfect - I’ve used many in my 35 year IT career. The product is pretty damn good at what it does though and I’m more than happy to pay my subscription.

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Thanks Mark, It is a shame that so many people dedicate their time to personal attacks and the like, over and over again :slight_smile: Thanks for sticking it out and voicing reason. Please know how much support like yours helps the team’s morale!

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Is this thread derailed or it’s just me? Even, I think that the multiple aswsers / points of view about if Xojo should be OpenSource or not cover pretty well the exposed in the initial entry. So, everything else seems to starts to fall in kind of “noise”. :thinking:

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