Once Xojo supports 64 bit desktop builds, I’m wondering what other folks are planning w.r.t. release versions?
OSX 10.7 and higher is all 64 bit capable, so one could easily release a 64 bit only app and support all modern Macs. Any reason not to?
Windows 10 : previews are available in both 32 and 64 bit versions. If a windows 7 user has 32 bit windows, but has a CPU / BIOS capable of running Windows 10 in 64 bit, will that be the default upgrade path? Or will they end up with 32 bit Windows 10? Are there any predictions about the 32/64 bit marketshare for Windows 10?
No. In the general public, half and half is the general consensus about how much 32 bit and 64 bit, amongst 7 and 8.x.
The proportion between 7 and 8.x is a dismal failure for Microsoft. Both 8 and 8.1 barely exceed 10%.
It seems the enormous push of Microsoft towards Windows 10 is their way to try and forget the sinister Windows 10 blunder. I noticed today the microsoft.com site has Windows 10 on the front page.
To be honest, Windows 8 and 8.1 was unusable for people who had been trained with keyboard and mouse. Windows 10 is just as nice as Windows 7 in that regard, while still as touch friendly as 8.x. And the pesky charm bar which masked the right of the screen whenever the mouse cursor ventured on the right of the screen is gone. Now it takes a little more intent to get it.
The most fascinating feature is the new API apps will now work the same on PC as on phone. Just as if iOS apps worked on OS X. I have very little practical details about that, just what last wednesday announcement said.
Michel, thanks for all the thoughts. To clarify my question on windows, I guess I’m asking “Once windows 10 is out, what’s the likely breakdown of 32bit vs. 64 bit users”. My hope is that the % of 32 bit users is small enough, and Xojo’s 64 bit support is good enough, that I could just go 64-bit only.
Right now it would not be a good idea. Microsoft is pushing like mad to have Windows 10 adopted in record numbers, but let us not underestimate laziness, conservatism and plain lack of competence that make some people never upgrade. Or simply “why fix what is not broken ?”.
There is a statistic I like because it tends to show the installed base, versus sales. The statistics by browsing clients.
Windows XP is still 18.7%. Probably massively 32 bit. Windows 7 is sort of half and half at the moment. Even if Windows 10 replaced all Windows 7 and Windows 8, there will be a very significant number of users still with 32 bit.
Then as much as I love Xojo, I would not bet all my business on 64 bit just yet. As anything new, it will probably have rough edges for a while, before one can consider it as reliable as good old current 32 bit.
This reminds me of the transition between PPC and Intel. For quite a while, I had both versions. It was easy. All I had to do is change a setting before build. I expect pretty much the same soon.
Besides, how are you going to deal with customers who know zilch about 32 and 64, and who will buy 64 when they should have bought 32 ? Are you going to spend an awful lot of time supporting them ? Why not instead put both 32 and 64 bit in the same installer, and if it allows it, let it just pick the right one for the customer ? No more support calls about which version.
My intention is to simply stop 32-Bit development and focus on 64-Bit only. Supporting too many versions of the Mac OS, is really starting to cause me headaches, which is why I dropped support for anything lower than 10.9.
I think Windows and Mac are very different. While it could be hard to find Mac users still using 32bit systems (at what year did they introduce 64bit? I forgot), there’s still a huge base of XP users and later systems 32bit only. So I think 32bit will be necessary for some time for Windows, while on Mac and Linux purely 64bit versions wouldn’t create a remarkable loss of potential users.
The main difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Apple is able to impose it’s technology with the machines. Windows has to run on old busted boxes with processors that could not support 64 bit.
Plus, turnover is much faster in the Mac world, where a lot of users renew their hardware every two years or so.
On Mac, I suspect in a couple years, 64 bit and 10.9 minimum will target some or over 85% of the installed base. Then it becomes feasible to only support 64 bit, as Sam wants to do.
On Windows, the bag is very mixed. I would be very surprised if current XP resistants switch to Windows 10, let alone because their machines are too slow to use it, but also because they would have to pay for the upgrade. People with 32 bit Windows 7 or 8.x will probably not switch to 64 bit en masse. Actually, at the risk of shocking some, I feel the safe bet for an end user developer is probably to distribute 32 bit apps for a while, unless memory size requires 64 bit. People are confused enough as it is between the half dozen Windows editions without inventing new reasons for them to require extra support. Unless, as I wrote, if the installer can transparently manage installation of 32 or 64 bit apps depending on the Windows type.
Corporate users have already started requiring 64 bit builds, so that makes sense. But an IT manager is supposed to know what he is doing. No doubt being able to produce 64 bit apps will be appreciated by developers on that market.
I have pointed that out before, but in spite of their sometimes harsh deprecations and rejections, Apple and the MAS is making it extraordinary easy for developers, who do not have to deal with the install support Windows requires.
My thoughts: my old app still works fine in 32 bit XP, and if users don’t want to upgrade to newer OS, then they can keep on using the old version. Those who move to 64 bit get the goodies, and by focusing my efforts on the 64 bit version only, will save tons of testing time.
This strategy only works if your old app is still useful on old systems, of course.
[quote=162706:@Norman Palardy]I think 10.6 was the first 64 bit only kernel
[/quote]
10.6 will run on older Core Duo (32 bit) processors, so I think it wasn’t until 10.7 that a 64 bit CPU (Core 2 Duo or higher) was required. It’s more complicated than that, since the BIOS (whatever OS X calls it) also has to be 64 bit as well. I think there are some Mac Pros and Xserves which have 64 bit CPUs but can’t run anything higher than 10.6?
I know a pair of these people who does not update nor upgrade its computer. The first one is because of a lot of applications he use have to be upgraded (and cost a lot of money).
The other one said: I run the OS my hardware was supposed to run and will not upgrade the OS because it will {slow down my computer}, {add bugs}, {is developed for later created hardware}, etc. This guy is a “Professor” and “knows what he said”: I will not try to explain why he can be wrong. And, after all, who am I to decide he is wrong ?
Why not just not worry about it and continue to develop only a 32 bit app? It works fine now, and you almost certainly will gain nothing from the 64 bit. Why worry about it?
Turnover is much faster on the PC side where computers are cheaper.
My father-in-law is still using his white iMac from 2005, I have a 2007 iMac running, my cousin has a 20in iMac G4 “lamp” from 2002, my uncle has a MBP from 2006 etc.
I don’t know anyone who still uses a PC older than 5 years, mostly because for many it has become a commodity purchase (buy them in the ALDI supermarket) or it simply isn’t worth repairing when it breaks down (my aunt’s brother is on his third PC laptop in 5 years as two broke down shortly after the warranty expired. He is now “thinking” about a Mac but I can’t see that happening with him as he looks for cheap, not value for money).
I have a Fujitsu-Siemens from 2002 that die last year or so (power to be replaced for the nth times).
I get an Akoya 11.6" / Full HD / Two In One that I get on mid september 2014 (399).
On the Apple front, I have an Apple //c from 1985, an Apple IIgs from 1989 + 1 from 1990, but I do not have anymore the two previous MacBook Pro ( 3 years + 3 years) that I take a waranty extension (Replace to a New insurance). I had to send them back to buy a brand new one. My PowerBook G4 from 2005 (I think) is no more functionnal since 2008, but I still have it !