MacBook Pro 16" out now

  1. 4 weeks ago

    Gavin S

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro UK

    It's finally here. And it's got a scissor-mechanism keyboard.

    https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/

    Marco Arment's thoughts - https://marco.org/2019/11/13/mbp16

  2. Christian S

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro, XDC Speakers, Third Party Store Germany

    Nice.
    How soon can I stop building 32bit plugins?

  3. Derek D

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers Newnan, GA. USA

    Sorry to Mac people, but...those prices! I just bought a Windows laptop last week with similar or better overall specs for under $1200 (including 1TB SSD, 16GB DD4 RAM, 144hz refresh and an NVidia RTX 2060 with 6GB RAM!). Can't make myself consider paying double for less.

  4. Sascha S

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Germany, Lower Saxony

    @DerekDiBenedetto Sorry to Mac people

    It's ok. We are fine. ;)

  5. Christian S

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro, XDC Speakers, Third Party Store Germany

    Derek, if it runs Windows as main operating system, we can’t buy it.

    Windows in VM is okay.

  6. Derek D

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers Newnan, GA. USA

    @ChristianSchmitz Derek, if it runs Windows as main operating system, we can’t buy it.

    Because of being a plugin maker? You can't buy it? Or just a strong opinion about Windows? I can understand that, but...paying double, in some cases more than double? Current Win10 setups are actually very stable and simple to maintain and use.

  7. Christian S

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro, XDC Speakers, Third Party Store Germany

    We need MacOS, Windows and Linux.

    Only (legal) way is to by a computer from Apple.

  8. Jürg O

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    @ChristianSchmitz How soon can I stop building 32bit plugins?

    macOS: since yesterday
    Windows/Linux: never ever ;)

  9. Markus R

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Europe / Germany

    @ChristianSchmitz Only (legal) way is to by a computer from Apple.

    i believe you mean if you create a executable it must created by a apple pc with mac os.

  10. Christian S

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro, XDC Speakers, Third Party Store Germany

    Running MacOS requires a computer from Apple as far as I remember. It can be in a VM on a Mac, too.

  11. Markus R

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Europe / Germany
    Edited 4 weeks ago

    @ChristianSchmitz
    i not like apples laws but somehow it make sense.

    @Gavin S
    have fun with your new device :)

  12. Kevin G

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Gatesheed, England

    @ChristianSchmitz Nice.
    How soon can I stop building 32bit plugins?

    Couldn't you build the 32 bit plugins within a VM running Mojave?

  13. Thom M

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers Greater Hartford Area, CT

    @DerekDiBenedetto Sorry to Mac people, but...those prices! I just bought a Windows laptop last week with similar or better overall specs for under $1200 (including 1TB SSD, 16GB DD4 RAM, 144hz refresh and an NVidia RTX 2060 with 6GB RAM!). Can't make myself consider paying double for less.

    Well to be fair, specs don't tell the whole story. That screen has a faster refresh rate than any Mac, but what's the resolution? What is the case made out of? Does it have thunderbolt? How's the trackpad? And the keyboard? What about tech support? How soon can you have your laptop back if it needs repairs?

    Last time I needed repairs on my MacBook Pro, they were replacing the entire upper portion. I handed it over to Fedex Tuesday evening, argued with Apple over passwords most of Wednesday, they repaired it Wednesday evening, and I had it back about 10am Thursday morning. For those of us that count on our computers, that kind of turnaround time alone is well worth the extra up front cost. They even handle many repairs in-store these days, meaning same-day repairs.

    Plus... Windows. Windows is a fine operating system, but I can run Windows on my Mac. I can't run Mac on Windows. That means, for cross platform software development, if you can't have both, have a Mac. But even then, the software available for macOS is often sooo much nicer. It's great that the big players have really embraced both platforms. I can get GitHub Desktop, Slack, Discord, Atom, Xojo... just about everything I need to get work done on my PC. And I do. But there's plenty of smaller programs that don't have any good counterpart on Windows. Like if I need FTP, on my Mac, Transmit is easily the best. On Windows, I have to suffer FileZilla or Cyberduck. If I need to connect to a PG server, Postico is my go-to tool, but on Windows the options are both expensive and unpleasant. I use apps like Coda, Reeder, Textastic/SubEthaEdit, and SnippetsLab that just don't exist on Windows. Sure, there are apps that perform similar functions like the Transmit vs FileZilla issue I mentioned, but when it comes to nice software... it's hard to beat macOS.

    But even with a $700 external Blackmagic video card (which I don't have) my Mac would still be awful at playing games. This 2880 × 1800 display takes a ton of GPU power to drive, and Macs just don't have it. There's plenty I can do on my PC that isn't reasonable on my Mac. I find video editing to be easier on my PC, likely because it has twice the RAM and a much more powerful video card. And of course, games are better there too.

    Specs don't tell the whole story, software matters, and both have their merits.

  14. Björn E

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Iceland
    Edited 4 weeks ago

    @ChristianSchmitz Running MacOS requires a computer from Apple as far as I remember. It can be in a VM on a Mac, too.

    @ChristianSchmitz Running MacOS requires a computer from Apple as far as I remember. It can be in a VM on a Mac, too.

    Just find old MacPro Box and replace the motherboard and CPU's and then run ESXi server for VM's.

    Then you can say its Upgraded Mac hardware !.

  15. Thom M

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers Greater Hartford Area, CT

    Oh and this MBP is a good stepping stone, addressing a number of serious criticisms... it has not improved in some areas I would have expected it to. The front camera is still 720p, it doesn’t support WiFi6, and still uses the last model’s processors.

    It’s good. If I were in the market for a MacBook, I’d be satisfied with it. But I think this is more evolution than revolution. The next generation is probably still coming in a year or two.

  16. Derek D

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers Newnan, GA. USA

    @Thom M Well to be fair, specs don't tell the whole story.
    There's plenty I can do on my PC that isn't reasonable on my Mac. I find video editing to be easier on my PC, likely because it has twice the RAM and a much more powerful video card. And of course, games are better there too.

    Games, video editing and coding/development is mostly what I do, so maybe that colors my perspective a bit, admittedly. But even so, "nicer" apps in some niche areas, quick repair service (only sometimes, from what i've read) and Thunderbolt IMHO don't account for the wide price chasm. But I see your point about specs not being the whole story.

  17. Thom M

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers Greater Hartford Area, CT

    @DerekDiBenedetto Games, video editing and coding/development is mostly what I do, so maybe that colors my perspective a bit, admittedly. But even so, "nicer" apps in some niche areas, quick repair service (only sometimes, from what i've read) and Thunderbolt IMHO don't account for the wide price chasm. But I see your point about specs not being the whole story.

    Historically, when you actually build Windows-based computers with comparable specs, the price difference usually isn't that wide. I don't just mean internal specs, but stuff like case material, screen, connectivity, and so on.

    In your example, we're talking about a $1000 difference. I'd be willing to bet much of that is eaten up by the higher resolution screen. Plus the full metal construction, better trackpad... I think the gap is justified.

    But that's ok. If those things don't matter to you, then why spend an extra $1000? That's exactly why competitors exist.

  18. Norman P

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro under a bus
    Edited 4 weeks ago

    every pc laptop that has similar specs & doesnt feel like lugging around a brick is in about the same price range as the MBP
    everything else weighs 5 - 7 pounds

  19. Sascha S

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Germany, Lower Saxony
    Edited 4 weeks ago

    @Thom M But even with a $700 external Blackmagic video card (which I don't have) my Mac would still be awful at playing games.

    I use a Radeon RX Vega 64 8 GB eGPU attached to my MBP 2017 and an external 4K Monitor and every supported Game i throw at it runs smooth with all those fancy GFX Settings at Ultra/Very High/... Don't even feel the need to install Win-on-Bootcamp to play unsupported Games... :)
    (OTOH, i did not buy my Mac for Gaming. If the eGPU would not perform like it does, i would play on PS4Pro/Xbox1X/...)

    -image-

  20. Sam R

    Nov 13 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro, Third Party Store Hengchun, Pingtung, Taiwan

    @Thom M and still uses the last model’s processors.

    The Verge claims that it's a little bit faster, my guess because they improved the thermal management. I am awaiting the Dave 2D full review, he's the guy that figured out if you put your Mac in the freezer you can get the performance that you should.

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