Just to add a data point, I’m running macOS 13.0.1 with Xojo 2022r3.2, with no non-Xojo plugins, and I have zero crashes. It’s probably not relevant in this case, but I never do an upgrade on my Macs - I continue to advocate spending one day a year doing a complete clean install on Macs.
2 Likes
Xojo with Ventura 13.1 beta 2 still crashes for me.
Same here. macOS 13.2 does crash Xojo.
My two cents:
I did all kind of tests here even since before Xojo 2022r3 was released on a MBP with M1 processor / 16 GB RAM. Repeating it with every new MBS release and new Ventura Beta/Final release (currently, Ventura 13.1 beta 2).
• Things found: The IDE doesn’t crash on opening when there are not MBS plugins installed in the plug-ins folder.
• The IDE doesn’t crash on opening when there are plugins from other vendors in the plugins folder.
• When MBS plugins are in the plug-ins folder… it crashes when calling dlopen (nothing we can do here, except Apple). And even the crashes are so random that they do not happen while trying to “open” a concrete dylib from one of the multiple MBS components… it vary.
Is there an explanation why I only get Xojo to launch when I put the Xojo folder on an external USB stick? Maybe because it is slow?
What if you load all MBS plugins slower (add a delay before loading each plugin)?
We tried that too… from the IDE side and from the C++ framework too. We can test using even slower delays… but just as a workaround and would make the loading process really slow for sure.
Anyway… it will worth a try!
Things using timers trying to make sequences instead of queues with fixed sequences could create troubles when the system speed and time allocation differs from system speed and some hardware reaction time of that one some people uses. If we fire asynchronous events like doThis7msTask1In10ms(); doThis7msTask2In20ms(); sometimes events just can swap the order in some machines, sometimes it never in some, sometimes it always in some.
I do remember a guy reporting a Windows crash occurring in few machines he had, Xojo had no clue about why, and the only thing the guy noticed that diverged between working and crashing machines was: newer faster machines are the crashing ones.
Time based sequences in parallel are unreliable unless huge gaps of time and maybe few security flags are put in to assure safety (was task1 done? If not wait a bit more).
1 Like
Could it be the number of plugins being loaded or a specific plugin? Did you try only a subset of MBS (Main + some others)?
No. We tried that too…
Meanwhile… macOS Ventura 13.1 Beta 3 available…
I am going to install beta 3 later today and see if some magic fixed this all.
I’m installing it already… and will publish my findings here about this issue.
2 Likes
…and still crashes here using Ventura 13.1 beta 3
1 Like
I assume you’ve looked at all the harden runtime entitlements and ruled out it being a combination of Apple security settings on the dylibs v.s. something like protected memory settings?
Or the differences between Intel, arm64 and arm64e?
Looking at the source code for dlopen, it does use pointer authentication, is the rest of the framework setup for this?
Have you tried calling the private API that dlopen calls?
1 Like
I have not yet installed beta 3 but I did tried the latest Xojo beta and it does crash too.
But the crashlog is a bit different. Here it is:
Translated Report (Full Report Below)
Process: Xojo [16630]
Path: /Applications/Beta/Xojo.app/Contents/MacOS/Xojo
Identifier: com.xojo.xojo
Version: 22.4.0.58549 (22.4.0.2.58549)
Code Type: ARM-64 (Native)
Parent Process: launchd [1]
User ID: 501
Date/Time: 2022-11-16 17:03:51.7819 +0100
OS Version: macOS 13.0.1 (22A400)
Report Version: 12
Anonymous UUID: C1B2E6A3-64EB-2D31-3BB8-C5F957CA5710
Sleep/Wake UUID: 7E75D770-514A-42C7-98F9-D6E6544BDD11
Time Awake Since Boot: 62000 seconds
Time Since Wake: 850 seconds
System Integrity Protection: enabled
Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x00000000000000f9
Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000001, 0x00000000000000f9
VM Region Info: 0xf9 is not in any region. Bytes before following region: 105557813886727
REGION TYPE START - END [ VSIZE] PRT/MAX SHRMOD REGION DETAIL
UNUSED SPACE AT START
—>
MALLOC_NANO (reserved) 600118000000-600120000000 [128.0M] rw-/rwx SM=NUL …(unallocated)
Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0 dyld 0x198f813a4 lsl::BTree<lsl::Allocator::Buffer, std::__1::lesslsl::Allocator::Buffer, false>::const_iterator::operator++() + 96
1 dyld 0x198f81380 lsl::BTree<lsl::Allocator::Buffer, std::__1::lesslsl::Allocator::Buffer, false>::const_iterator::operator++() + 60
2 dyld 0x198f81d54 lsl::BTree<lsl::Allocator::Buffer, std::__1::lesslsl::Allocator::Buffer, false>::erase(lsl::BTree<lsl::Allocator::Buffer, std::__1::lesslsl::Allocator::Buffer, false>::const_iterator) + 76
3 dyld 0x198f819fc lsl::PersistentAllocator::reserveRange(lsl::BTree<lsl::Allocator::Buffer, lsl::PersistentAllocator::RegionSizeCompare, false>::const_iterator&, lsl::Allocator::Buffer) + 264
4 dyld 0x198f820b0 lsl::PersistentAllocator::allocate_buffer(unsigned long, unsigned long, unsigned long, lsl::Allocator**) + 624
5 dyld 0x198f811e0 lsl::Allocator::aligned_alloc(unsigned long, unsigned long) + 180
6 dyld 0x198f81230 lsl::Allocator::strdup(char const*) + 48
7 dyld 0x198f7e8b8 dyld4::FileManager::fileRecordForPath(char const*) + 40
8 dyld 0x198f9c624 dyld4::Atlas::ProcessSnapshot::Serializer::readMappedFileInfo(std::__1::span<std::byte, 18446744073709551615ul>&, unsigned long long&, lsl::UUID&, dyld4::FileRecord&) + 132
9 dyld 0x198f9b170 dyld4::Atlas::ProcessSnapshot::Serializer::deserialize(std::__1::span<std::byte, 18446744073709551615ul>) + 928
10 dyld 0x198f9acec dyld4::Atlas::ProcessSnapshot::ProcessSnapshot(lsl::Allocator&, dyld4::FileManager&, bool, std::__1::span<std::byte, 18446744073709551615ul>) + 304
11 dyld 0x198f66f64 lsl::UniquePtrdyld4::Atlas::ProcessSnapshot lsl::Allocator::makeUnique<dyld4::Atlas::ProcessSnapshot, lsl::EphemeralAllocator&, dyld4::FileManager&, bool, std::__1::span<std::byte, 18446744073709551615ul> const&>(lsl::EphemeralAllocator&, dyld4::FileManager&, bool&&, std::__1::span<std::byte, 18446744073709551615ul> const&) + 80
12 dyld 0x198f63afc dyld4::RuntimeState::getCurrentProcessSnapshot() + 96
13 dyld 0x198f638cc dyld4::RuntimeState::notifyDebuggerLoad(std::__1::span<dyld4::Loader const*, 18446744073709551615ul> const&) + 72
14 dyld 0x198f92f3c dyld4::APIs::dlopen_from(char const*, int, void*)::$_0::operator()() const + 748
15 dyld 0x198f8c968 dyld4::APIs::dlopen_from(char const*, int, void*) + 892
16 PluginBridgeCocoa.dylib 0x10c3d0b14 0x10c3c8000 + 35604
17 PluginBridgeCocoa.dylib 0x10c3d2bd4 0x10c3c8000 + 43988
18 PluginBridgeCocoa.dylib 0x10c3d1d00 0x10c3c8000 + 40192
19 PluginBridgeCocoa.dylib 0x10c3ceb88 0x10c3c8000 + 27528
20 Xojo 0x102e3a160 PluginBridge.LoadPlugin%b%oo + 96
21 Xojo 0x104124e44 RBLibrary.LoadOnePlugin%o%obb + 2680
22 Xojo 0x10414ded4 RBLibrary.LoadPluginsFromFolder%%ooA1obb + 3500
23 Xojo 0x10414f244 RBLibrary.LoadUserPlugins%%o + 1404
24 Xojo 0x104110b48 RBLibrary.Load%%o + 4772
25 Xojo 0x102e74148 IDEApp.Event_Open%%o + 18904
26 XojoFramework 0x1089ec568 CocoaFinishApplicationStartup() + 184
27 XojoFramework 0x1089eb09c 0x108904000 + 946332
28 CoreFoundation 0x19935658c CFNOTIFICATIONCENTER_IS_CALLING_OUT_TO_AN_OBSERVER + 148
29 CoreFoundation 0x1993f4074 ___CFXRegistrationPost_block_invoke + 88
30 CoreFoundation 0x1993f3fbc _CFXRegistrationPost + 440
31 CoreFoundation 0x199327bac _CFXNotificationPost + 708
32 Foundation 0x19a21472c -[NSNotificationCenter postNotificationName:object:userInfo:] + 88
33 AppKit 0x19c5bfa1c -[NSApplication _postDidFinishNotification] + 284
34 AppKit 0x19c5bf7cc -[NSApplication _sendFinishLaunchingNotification] + 172
35 AppKit 0x19c5b89d4 _DPSNextEvent + 1564
36 AppKit 0x19c5b77c0 -[NSApplication(NSEvent) _nextEventMatchingEventMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 728
37 XojoFramework 0x1089ece88 0x108904000 + 953992
38 XojoFramework 0x1089ecf10 0x108904000 + 954128
39 Xojo 0x102c25ffc Application._CallFunctionWithExceptionHandling%%op + 164
40 XojoFramework 0x108b772ec CallFunctionWithExceptionHandling(void (*)()) + 180
41 XojoFramework 0x1089eceac 0x108904000 + 954028
42 AppKit 0x19c5abbf0 -[NSApplication run] + 464
43 XojoFramework 0x108b75b48 RuntimeRun + 48
44 Xojo 0x102d8bbb4 REALbasic._RuntimeRun + 28
45 Xojo 0x106e139e0 _Main + 528
46 Xojo 0x106e07458 main + 36
47 dyld 0x198f57e50 start + 2544
Thread 1:: com.apple.NSEventThread
0 libsystem_kernel.dylib 0x199242df0 mach_msg2_trap + 8
1 libsystem_kernel.dylib 0x1992548d8 mach_msg2_internal + 80
2 libsystem_kernel.dylib 0x19924b638 mach_msg_overwrite + 540
3 libsystem_kernel.dylib 0x19924316c mach_msg + 24
4 CoreFoundation 0x199361bdc __CFRunLoopServiceMachPort + 160
5 CoreFoundation 0x1993604c8 __CFRunLoopRun + 1232
6 CoreFoundation 0x19935f8a4 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 612
7 AppKit 0x19c6e2248 _NSEventThread + 172
8 libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x19928206c _pthread_start + 148
9 libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x19927ce2c thread_start + 8
Thread 2:
0 libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x19927ce18 start_wqthread + 0
Thread 3:
0 libsystem_pthread.dylib 0x19927ce18 start_wqthread + 0
Thread 0 crashed with ARM Thread State (64-bit):
x0: 0x0000000000000000 x1: 0x0000000107d602d8 x2: 0x0000000000000002 x3: 0x000000016d41b3a8
x4: 0x000000016d41b6d8 x5: 0x0000000000000010 x6: 0x0000000000000003 x7: 0x0000000000000190
x8: 0x0000000000000001 x9: 0x000000016d41b4e1 x10: 0x0000000000000007 x11: 0x0000000000000006
x12: 0x0000000000000000 x13: 0x00000000000000ff x14: 0x0000000000000006 x15: 0xffffffffffffffff
x16: 0x00000001f632ad50 x17: 0x14490001f632ad50 x18: 0x0000000000000000 x19: 0x000000016d41b4d0
x20: 0x000000016d41b530 x21: 0x0000000107d60428 x22: 0x0000000107d60200 x23: 0x0000020fac08f006
x24: 0x000000016d41b4e1 x25: 0x0000000000000006 x26: 0x0000000000000000 x27: 0x0000000151852580
x28: 0x0000000151852600 fp: 0x000000016d41b420 lr: 0x7b21000198f81380
sp: 0x000000016d41b3b0 pc: 0x0000000198f813a4 cpsr: 0x20001000
far: 0x000000010c343bd8 esr: 0x56000080 Address size fault
Binary Images:
0x198f52000 - 0x198fdc4bf dyld () /usr/lib/dyld
0x10c3c8000 - 0x10c417fff PluginBridgeCocoa.dylib () <7514bf6b-6c47-3184-9c7d-0dd7691a8d37> /Applications/Beta/Xojo.app/Contents/Frameworks/PluginBridgeCocoa.dylib
0x1029dc000 - 0x107053fff com.xojo.xojo (22.4.0.58549) <147d1da2-daa4-31fc-ab5c-746b12251de4> /Applications/Beta/Xojo.app/Contents/MacOS/Xojo
0x108904000 - 0x108c9bfff com.xojo.XojoFramework (1.0) <8ce635a1-8011-3101-8ef6-ad1415c90e14> /Applications/Beta/Xojo.app/Contents/Frameworks/XojoFramework.framework/Versions/A/XojoFramework
0x1992e0000 - 0x1997b7fff com.apple.CoreFoundation (6.9) /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation
0x19a20b000 - 0x19ac43fff com.apple.Foundation (6.9) <52b2f83f-586d-32a2-8b66-ce651400ac8c> /System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation
0x19c57f000 - 0x19d486fff com.apple.AppKit (6.9) /System/Library/Frameworks/AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit
0x199242000 - 0x19927affb libsystem_kernel.dylib () <6d6644d3-3db3-34c4-b1e3-c675ec5360f0> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_kernel.dylib
0x19927b000 - 0x199287ffb libsystem_pthread.dylib () <886caca0-5762-3640-8db2-3fa3b911c062> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_pthread.dylib
0x0 - 0xffffffffffffffff ??? (*) <00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000> ???
External Modification Summary:
Calls made by other processes targeting this process:
task_for_pid: 0
thread_create: 0
thread_set_state: 0
Calls made by this process:
task_for_pid: 0
thread_create: 0
thread_set_state: 0
Calls made by all processes on this machine:
task_for_pid: 0
thread_create: 0
thread_set_state: 0
VM Region Summary:
ReadOnly portion of Libraries: Total=1.6G resident=0K(0%) swapped_out_or_unallocated=1.6G(100%)
Writable regions: Total=6.0G written=0K(0%) resident=0K(0%) swapped_out=0K(0%) unallocated=6.0G(100%)
VIRTUAL REGION
REGION TYPE SIZE COUNT (non-coalesced)
=========== ======= =======
Accelerate framework 256K 2
Activity Tracing 256K 1
CG backing stores 5568K 4
CG raster data 32K 1
ColorSync 624K 28
CoreAnimation 3120K 9
CoreGraphics 32K 2
CoreUI image data 640K 4
Foundation 5408K 41
Image IO 720K 1
Kernel Alloc Once 32K 1
MALLOC 5.0G 479
MALLOC guard page 192K 9
MALLOC_MEDIUM (reserved) 944.0M 8 reserved VM address space (unallocated)
MALLOC_NANO (reserved) 128.0M 1 reserved VM address space (unallocated)
STACK GUARD 56.1M 4
Stack 9808K 4
VM_ALLOCATE 160K 10
__AUTH 2343K 422
__AUTH_CONST 28.2M 657
__CTF 756 1
__DATA 27.4M 1149
__DATA_CONST 46.1M 1141
__DATA_DIRTY 2675K 271
__FONT_DATA 2352 1
__LINKEDIT 801.9M 483
__OBJC_CONST 5433K 390
__OBJC_RO 65.1M 1
__OBJC_RW 1981K 1
__TEXT 869.1M 1162
__XOJO 48K 1
dyld private memory 4352K 10
mapped file 212.4M 696
shared memory 912K 16
=========== ======= =======
TOTAL 8.1G 7011
TOTAL, minus reserved VM space 7.1G 7011
Full Report
{“app_name”:“Xojo”,“timestamp”:“2022-11-16 17:03:54.00 +0100”,“app_version”:“22.4.0.58549”,“slice_uuid”:“147d1da2-daa4-31fc-ab5c-746b12251de4”,“build_version”:“22.4.0.2.58549”,“platform”:1,“bundleID”:“com.xojo.xojo”,“share_with_app_devs”:0,“is_first_party”:0,“bug_type”:“309”,“os_version”:“macOS 13.0.1 (22A400)”,“roots_installed”:0,“name”:“Xojo”,“incident_id”:“DBC6F752-E9DD-4F27-8A7C-9587AE742A8C”}
{
“uptime” : 62000,
“procRole” : “Background”,
“version” : 2,
“userID” : 501,
“deployVersion” : 210,
“modelCode” : “MacBookPro18,1”,
“coalitionID” : 6705,
“osVersion” : {
“train” : “macOS 13.0.1”,
“build” : “22A400”,
“releaseType” : “User”
},
“captureTime” : “2022-11-16 17:03:51.7819 +0100”,
“incident” : “DBC6F752-E9DD-4F27-8A7C-9587AE742A8C”,
“pid” : 16630,
“translated” : false,
“cpuType” : “ARM-64”,
“roots_installed” : 0,
“bug_type” : “309”,
“procLaunch” : “2022-11-16 17:02:47.1171 +0100”,
“procStartAbsTime” : 1486830264852,
“procExitAbsTime” : 1488382047074,
“procName” : “Xojo”,
“procPath” : “/Applications/Beta/Xojo.app/Contents/MacOS/Xojo”,
“bundleInfo” : {“CFBundleShortVersionString”:“22.4.0.58549”,“CFBundleVersion”:“22.4.0.2.58549”,“CFBundleIdentifier”:“com.xojo.xojo”},
“storeInfo” : {“deviceIdentifierForVendor”:“5018DCE7-8F1D-5EDF-9C24-2799AC636DA3”,“thirdParty”:true},
“parentProc” : “launchd”,
“parentPid” : 1,
“coalitionName” : “com.xojo.xojo”,
“crashReporterKey” : “C1B2E6A3-64EB-2D31-3BB8-C5F957CA5710”,
“wakeTime” : 850,
“sleepWakeUUID” : “7E75D770-514A-42C7-98F9-D6E6544BDD11”,
“sip” : “enabled”,
“vmRegionInfo” : “0xf9 is not in any region. Bytes before following region: 105557813886727\n REGION TYPE START - END [ VSIZE] PRT/MAX SHRMOD REGION DETAIL\n UNUSED SPACE AT START\n—> \n MALLOC_NANO (reserved) 600118000000-600120000000 [128.0M] rw-/rwx SM=NUL …(unallocated)”,
“exception” : {“codes”:“0x0000000000000001, 0x00000000000000f9”,“rawCodes”:[1,249],“type”:“EXC_BAD_ACCESS”,“signal”:“SIGSEGV”,“subtype”:“KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x00000000000000f9”},
“vmregioninfo” : “0xf9 is not in any region. Bytes before following region: 105557813886727\n REGION TYPE START - END [ VSIZE] PRT/MAX SHRMOD REGION DETAIL\n UNUSED SPACE AT START\n—> \n MALLOC_NANO (reserved) 600118000000-600120000000 [128.0M] rw-/rwx SM=NUL …(unallocated)”,
“extMods” : {“caller”:{“thread_create”:0,“thread_set_state”:0,“task_for_pid”:0},“system”:{“thread_create”:0,“thread_set_state”:0,“task_for_pid”:0},“targeted”:{“thread_create”:0,“thread_set_state”:0,“task_for_pid”:0},“warnings”:0},
“faultingThread” : 0,
“threads” : [{“triggered”:true,“id”:888237,“threadState”:{“x”:[{“value”:0},{“value”:4426433240},{“value”:2},{“value”:6127989672},{“value”:6127990488},{“value”:16},{“value”:3},{“value”:400},{“value”:1},{“value”:6127989985},{“value”:7},{“value”:6},{“value”:0},{“value”:255},{“value”:6},{“value”:18446744073709551615},{“value”:8425483600,“symbolLocation”:72,“symbol”:“vtable for lsl::PersistentAllocator”},{“value”:1461699562483920208,“symbolLocation”:1461699554058436680,“symbol”:“vtable for lsl::PersistentAllocator”},{“value”:0},{“value”:6127989968},{“value”:6127990064},{“value”:4426433576},{“value”:4426433024},{“value”:2266334031878},{“value”:6127989985},{“value”:6},{“value”:0},{“value”:5662647680},{“value”:5662647808}],“flavor”:“ARM_THREAD_STATE64”,“lr”:{“value”:8872372747757949824},“cpsr”:{“value”:536875008},“fp”:{“value”:6127989792},“sp”:{“value”:6127989680},“esr”:{“value”:1442840704,“description”:" Address size 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@ChristopheDV please use Code tags and the Details/Summary tags when posting giant blocks of text. See PSA: Please Enclose Your Paste in Code Blocks - #6 by Mike_D
6 Likes
Is the same thing… dlopen
I would love a full set of reaction emoticons instead of just “Love” to express and quantify the emotional status of the users. 
1 Like
The problem is that Apple seems to have a bug in the dlopen code, which triggers with a little probability like 1% or so.
If you just load Xojo with internal plugins, that is may be 20 dylibs.
If you add MBS Plugins (all), you add 500 more dylibs.
For next version, I link them all with newer Xcode, but that should not matter.
Not sure what I can do to help here, beside to recommend to reduce number of plugins or to use a tool to unpack them.
I don’t think Apple bothers about this problem. If only Xojo has issues with dlopen, they just don’t care, I guess. 
3 Likes
Pretty much, remember Cook recently said they don’t put attention on things not a lot of people want, apparently people wanted more Ads in iOS.
3 Likes