"Update to Windows framework"

I am pretty sure it is only this that we will see. No new Windows framework.

I’m surprised that anyone is surprised at the current continuous beta state. It was predicted when they announced their rapid release model. There are things that NEED to be done (QuickTime, 64Bit) but there are also a lot of things which should NOT be done until they are production ready, and should not be released half-baked to a schedule that gets less and less adhered to anyway.

I know I’m in a minority here, and that most people want new features yesterday. I’m not one of them. I’m a bit old school in that I expect my tools to be reliable, and I certainly do not want to have to consider which release is suitable for which project.

I extended my license by FIVE years in 2012, and it finally expired this week. I expected REAL.studio to be rock-solid, flimmer-free, and 64bit at the end of my subscription. What I got is an IDE that I dislike and a “new” documentation that I loathe (it is by far the worst bit of Xojo. Whose “brilliant” idea was it?).

Truth is, I might as well still be using REAL.studio 2012 R2.1 …

Will I renew? Not in the foreseeable future. I’ll wait for that elusive Xojo-Unicorn that has what I want. By my reckoning it might come around in 2020 …

Windows is a soft target, win32 is focused on function rather than beauty. It is focused on the commercial user (which is why MS owns >90% of users). It also doesn’t change quarterly like the arty/farty product some seem to need. I (and my clients) am a minimalist - function over beauty.

Having said that why is 5 year old software more pretty than today? Where did this “flat” design shit come from? Is the Mac being downgraded to a tablet? And yes I know MS are following rather than driving the flow.

This whole conversation is about arty/farty users wanting a Windows functional machine to run macOS software. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy Xojo are addressing this issue.

Very true, I feel the same way till today.

Come on people. If you want stability over innovation, simply use an older version. That is why most of my current software sold in the Windows Store or on Amazon is built with 2016R6.

But there is no two ways to implement new features, but to evolve the current edition. Sure, I agree, we used to have end of the year stable releases (which is the case for 2016R6 BTW). But that is forgetting the huge amount of work needed for Direct2D, and now flicker reduction. But 2017 is not over yet. We may still see a very good end of 2017 release :slight_smile:

[quote=351203:@Michel Bujardet]Come on people. If you want stability over innovation, simply use an older version. That is why most of my current software sold in the Windows Store or on Amazon is built with 2016R6.

But there is no two ways to implement new features, but to evolve the current edition. Sure, I agree, we used to have end of the year stable releases (which is the case for 2016R6 BTW). But that is forgetting the huge amount of work needed for Direct2D, and now flicker reduction. But 2017 is not over yet. We may still see a very good end of 2017 release :)[/quote]
Do you mean 2016R4.1?

I don’t see 2016R6.

Last time I checked. I was a CLIENT of Xojo, not an INVESTOR
the expectations of these two classes of people are considerably different.
A CLIENT expects a viable stable product for the money they put out
An Investor on the other handle provides money to fund resources for future products.

I had done exactly the same thing, with pretty much the same expectations (Mine expired in February)…

Same for me for two reasons, one is that I’m now in a forced fixed income situation, but second is that for me there is nothing (yet) that makes it worth paying full boat ($299) … time was I gladly played Client and Investor with my annual subscription fee, but now I have to be 100% client

[quote=351204:@Simon Berridge]Do you mean 2016R4.1?

I don’t see 2016R6.[/quote]

Sorry. 2016R3. Last version before Direct2D.

[quote=351212:@Dave S]Last time I checked. I was a CLIENT of Xojo, not an INVESTOR
the expectations of these two classes of people are considerably different.
A CLIENT expects a viable stable product for the money they put out
An Investor on the other handle provides money to fund resources for future products.[/quote]

That is the whole confusion some here entertain. A good number of Xojo users have some attachment to the product, and feel somewhat involved in Xojo’s development. Probably even more so those who are pre-release testers.

In reality, we should before anything keep in mind we are conducting a business, and should rely on true and tested tools. Which means stay away from the most recent releases, which may still have rough edges.

As a professional, I don’t need the very latest version. I need the very latest version that works for my business. Which means for better or worse, I don’t necessarily need to renew every year like clockwork. Thanks to Xojo’s try before you buy model, I can still have a taste of the newest release, and decide to buy if and when results comply to my standard.

That said, this forum is a place to exchange point of views, and in that respect, it never hurts participating in topics about our favorite development tool’s future.

For windows I still have to use this version.

Agree, but it hurts when you see longstanding issues fixed in later releases while you cannot even use them.

Stupid question:
what reported the beta tester about Direct2D at pre-release stage(s) ?

Did one ever saw the direct2d problems ?

Of course !

Thanks. Then, I do not know what to say.

I too was pleased to hear they were going to focus on resolving the flicker issue, which causes me much grief in my LOB apps.

There are many excellent points and valid critiques raised in this thread though, so I’ll temper my celebrations and take more of a ‘wait and see’ stance.

What does annoy me is the amount of regressions between releases. It is frustrating to have to continue building in 2016r3. And God forbid you save it inadvertently.

I agree with @Tim Hare that Xojo definitely needs a ‘Snow Leopard’ release or two, to catch up on a long list of open feedback cases.

Meanwhile, I’ve let my Pro license (since 2013) expire, and will renew when I see substantial movement on the Windows flicker issue.

It’s been a while I have been using older releases, the ones I found most stable for my needs. Last year I was using 2015R4.1 for all my Windows developments, including Windows Store. This year, it is 2016R3.

I have to confess that since 2016R4.1, I have looked at the releases, noted the improvements, cringed at the regressions, and set it aside waiting for a more stable version. I do recognize the tremendous amount of work that must have been the implementation of Direct2D. I am looking forward for the next release and flicker reduction. But to be honest, I haven’t seen yet a version I can deem appropriate for my professional needs.

That said, the Windows platform is not the only one where some rough edges exist. I loaded inadvertently one of my most simple projects in 2012R2.1 Mac, and it crashed badly at the first debug run. Here again, back to 2016R3.

I may let my Pro license lapse next year. In spite of some degree of animosity from people about my criticisms, I maintain iOS is far from ready for prime time. So here it goes. Console has not seen major improvement for years and I don’t use it so often, I can hold for a long time with current version. Windows and Mac I am content with 2016R3.

Android I am curious to see what it will be, but if it is as limited as current iOS, especially in terms of controls properties like color, transparency, pictures and events, I’ll leave that to Xojo’s unconditionals, thank you, and stick to good ol’ B4A which never disappointed me. Preconceptions aside, I do wish Xojo Android be on par with Desktop, so we can really port our existing applications without the exorbitant declare pains experienced in iOS. Android being by far the most important platform all computing devices combined, meeting that strategic target with too limited a tool would be a pity.

If for any reason a new version of the Mac IDE was needed because a new whim of the fruit, I’ll simply get the desktop version.