Microsoft "intentional" piracy myth ?

the tech republic article is about Windows 10 :slight_smile:

You might have misunderstood. I should have typed: Whoever made that Git project Fizz Buzz Enterprise Edition nailed the over engineering that often goes into corporate Java code.

My comment was a reference to the repo, not Git itself, though I realize now that wasn’t clear from the sentence.

There were mature UNIX variants, and even DOS could be considered a substitute good. There’s always a percentage of piracy that will simply never convert into $$$.

But again, Microsoft may have just always been one step behind. Even with all their efforts in 10 “three quarters” of Chinese users pirated 10. How do you get a step ahead of pirates without controlling the hardware and resorting to insane cryptography schemes? Even iOS is regularly jail broken.

I think China is a special case because legal enforcement is dubious depending on circumstances outside of Microsoft’s control.

I think for the people on these forums UNIX/DOS/etc may have been fine substitutes. For all the people in my daily life who don’t breathe computers Windows was the first time they could do anything useful. Even then they were encumbered by Windows Updates that destroyed your machine and spyware that destroyed your data. It was like the Wild West out there.

Microsoft certainly knew that more people using Windows was better for them in the end. However my argument is that they did not go out of their way to enable it like conspiracies proclaim.

That’s true every where for individuals. Businesses can get hammered in the US, but the worst a home pirate might get is a letter from their ISP demanding they stop visiting a specific file sharing site.

I think we agree more than we disagree. If Microsoft has ever “enabled piracy” I imagine the decision has been something like this: “We’ve spent X dollars and converted some pirates into buyers. Spending Y additional dollars will cut into the percentage of pirates who won’t buy any way. And cause tech support headaches for honest users. So let’s not spend those additional Y dollars.”

And not: “Guys…hey guys…let’s put in some back doors for the pirates so we gain marketshare against Linux. Shhh! Don’t tell the shareholders! Linus is going to be sooo mad!”

So yeah, probably no real conspiracy.

[quote=314595:@Norman Palardy]There seems to be something to this - just not world wide
http://www.techrepublic.com/article/microsoft-gives-up-on-charging-for-windows-in-china/[/quote]

Interesting. Microsoft embracing the Gilette model…

I second everything regarding JAVA… I hate it… it’s a bloaty piece of… aaaarg!!! :wink:
And I remember .NET was close to JAVA, that’s the reason I never got familiar with it.

Lads, I’ve took a journey to the past and fished around in my archieves… sorry kind of german habit to keep everything organized. I need to correct myself. The Serial mod 7 rule was only for the last part of the serial and it was before WinXP for every product of Microsoft (Office, Servers, NT4, everything except CAL Client Paks and DOS based Windows, but this was a toy anyway) take a look:


This is my last piece of .NET:

And this was my first XOJO/ Realbasic after switch to Mac:

:slight_smile:

The reason for Windows success since the nineties is not only about piracy. It is also that you can throw pretty much anything x86 including a kitchen sink, and it will graciously install and work. Linux has pretty much the opposite for years : no matter how compatible the machine better set some aspirin aside. Heck, my last machine was Intel powered, MSI card, and it could never stomach any version of Linux. I had to resort to VirtualBox.

I can attest they were very much at it. I had dealings with the Business Software Alliance in California back in mid 90’s. Fortunately, I had all my licenses official and current, but it was not a nice moment.

In Business Windows was damn expensive. As soon as you started to collect CAL Licenses in 5ver packs

Expensive, sure, but rather friendly to install. In the Windows 95-98 era, Linux was downright hellish.

They were very friendly here in Germany back in 2003/2004. They announced themself to one of my customer and offered him a “graceful” transition to legal software licenses… but I am not sure how they would react if he wouldn’t has been cooperative.

[quote=314634:@Tomas Jakobs]I second everything regarding JAVA… I hate it… it’s a bloaty piece of… aaaarg!!! :wink:
And I remember .NET was close to JAVA, that’s the reason I never got familiar with it.[/quote]

I’m…OK with .NET on the desktop. There are definitely times when the .NET framework makes me want to scream. But it’s not too bad. ASP.NET drives me nuts though even though I’ve done quite a bit of it.

I have less experience with Java but I get the impression that a big part of the problem is over engineering by the user base. Some of the standard practices and design patterns in the Java world are just insanely complex for no good reason. I laughed out loud at that repo because I’ve been in a meeting where a very simple solution to a very simple problem somehow started with “We need interfaces and factories and 12 levels of abstraction…”

One of the things I love about Xojo is that it strikes a good balance between academic features/design patterns and practicality. There are certainly features I wish Xojo would add to the language and framework to make life easier. But I feel like I can fire up Xojo and whip out apps with comparatively little effort.

Microsoft engineers have used cracked software as they developed XP.

Pirated software used to create help content in Microsoft’s Windows XP

I remember intervening in one of Sun’s grand mass in Germany around 2004, where the CEO touted “pura Java” as the ultimate tool.

When I asked about the blatant lack of stability of Java for certain things, there was a short silence, before the guy recited his breviary.

Java in onto itself is not evil. It is actually a pretty decent language. But there are so many people around who want it to do everything, and an incredible amount of libraries snobbism…

I actually use a Java app today to develop my latest Android App. Luckily, it wraps everything into Basic :wink:

[quote=314653:@Axel Schneider]Microsoft engineers have used cracked software as they developed XP.

Pirated software used to create help content in Microsoft’s Windows XP[/quote]

Ops Sound Forge… also used it a lot… and… shame on me… it was cracked too… today on Mac I use TwistedWave… same layout like Sound Forge but legal :wink:

Still true to this day. Windows and Windows Server runs on basically everything.

OK, go this way and regret

The US government got behind anti-piracy in a big way (remember “Don’t Copy that Floppy?”), and worked with many foreign governments to help reduce piracy. But the funding of that program was very sparse. So Microsoft would step in and provide a lot of assistance in those countries that cooperated. Companies that pirated a lot would eventually get turned out by a disgruntled employee.

In some countries, if the anti-piracy squad would investigate a company, they’d invariably find a bunch of MS stuff pirated. MS would then offer a sweet deal - ‘get right’ with legitimate licenses at a discount price, but sign an agreement to only buy MS products instead of competitors products.

Yesterday I made a small experiment. In my vmware fusion box I started up a fully patched Win10 Pro with installed Microsoft Office 2016 and pushed the record button on my firewall for 30 Minutes. The results are disgusting… two hosts were more than interesting: omniroot.com - nomen est omen - a host owned by MarkMonitor Inc. a global player in protecting brands and collecting data and www.freshfields.com a law company?!?

To me Win10 is a “total disaster” as somebody else would say…

If you want a complete list, here we are:
Firewall Log Windows 10 Pro + Office über 30 Minuten Laufzeit
destination:52.172.176.104 port: 3544 & port 65444
destination:www.microsoft.com port: 80
destination: a1856.dspw65.akamai.net port: 80
destination: g.live.com port: 443
destination: s1.symcb.com port: 80
destination: store-images.s-microsoft.com port: 443
destination: store-images.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: storecatalogrevocation.storequality.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: officecdn.microsoft.com.edgesuite.net port: 80
destination: dl.delivery.mp.microsoft.com port: 80
destination: ieonlinews.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: licensing.mp.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: tele.trafficmanager.net port: 80
destination: telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: skyapi.live.net port: 443
destination: flightgroups.photos.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: db5sch101101329.wns.windows.com port: 443
destination: tlu.dl.delivery.mp.microsoft.com port: 80
destination: wdcp.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: db5sch101110627.wns.windows.com port: 443
destination: vassg142.ocsp.omniroot.com port: 80
destination: sci2-1.am.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: geo-prod.do.dsp.mp.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: cdn.content.prod.cms.msn.com port: 443
destination: bn1305.settings.live.net port: 443
destination: m.hotmail.com port: 443
destination: storage.live.com port: 443
destination: fs.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: ess.windowsphone.net port: 443
destination: ocsp.omniroot.com port: 80
destination: settings.data.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: bn4sch101122112.wns.windows.com port: 443
destination: db6sch102090504.wns.windows.com port: 443
destination:www.bing.com port: 443
destination: sway-cdn.com port: 443
destination: cdn.content.prod.cms.msn.com port: 80
destination: sway-cdn.com port: 80
destination: au.download.windowsupdate.com port: 80
destination: geover-prod.do.dsp.mp.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: eas.outlook.com port: 443
destination: auth.gfx.ms port: 443
destination: fe3.delivery.mp.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: ssw.live.com port: 80
destination:www.freshfields.com port: 80
destination: officecdn.microsoft.com port: 80
destination: db6sch102091602.wns.windows.com port: 443
destination: insiderservice.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: mobile.pipe.aria.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: db5sch103100221.wns.windows.com port: 443
destination: cs.dds.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: db5sch101100840.wns.windows.com port: 443
destination: db5sch101101523.wns.windows.com port: 443
destination: arc.msn.com port: 443
destination: client.wns.windows.com port: 443
destination: windows.policies.live.net port: 443
destination: inference.location.live.net port: 443
destination: ocsp.msocsp.com port: 80
destination: dmd.metaservices.microsoft.com port: 80
destination: go.microsoft.com port: 80 & 443
destination: win10.ipv6.microsoft.com port: 3544
destination:www.msftconnecttest.com port: 80
destination: oneclient.sfx.ms port: 443
destination: g.live.com port: 80
destination: nexusrules.officeapps.live.com port: 443
destination: oca.telemetry.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: download.windowsupdate.com port: 80
destination: watson.telemetry.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: fe2.update.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: v10.vortex-win.data.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: nexus.officeapps.live.com port: 443
destination: s2.symcb.com port: 80
destination: ctldl.windowsupdate.com port: 80
destination: officeclient.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: sls.update.microsoft.com port: 443
destination: login.live.com port: 443
destination: config.edge.skype.com port: 443
destination: ocos-office365-s2s.msedge.net port: 443

Tomas, I don’t understand the point of your post. What are these sites, and what are they supposed to do ?