You can still distribute your software unsigned as ever, but you will have to indicate to the user how to right click, select Open, then confirm you want to launch the program.
Indeed, Sierra has a tougher security, but that does not prevent running unsigned applications.
Nothing new. To be fair, $99.00 a year is less than a Netflix subscription, with all possibilities to easily make money in the App Store.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Await to tell that more than once for some customers 
I get that ! I was not able to run the application, so I cannot test if it suit my needs. Go figure.
(That guy will certainly never upgrade to Sierra
)
If you have revenues with your application, the first $99 are to pay Apple, then more revenue to pay Xojo, and then, if your sales are large enough, you will be able to get money for your use (and do not forget to make provisions for the IRS
Who remember the Beatles (George Harrison) song Taxman ? :-{
[quote=302228:@Michel Bujardet]You can still distribute your software unsigned as ever, but you will have to indicate to the user how to right click, select Open, then confirm you want to launch the program.
Indeed, Sierra has a tougher security, but that does not prevent running unsigned applications.
Nothing new. To be fair, $99.00 a year is less than a Netflix subscription, with all possibilities to easily make money in the App Store.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.[/quote]
But that doesn’t work, in Sierra if you use a ZIP file to distribute, right clicking to open works sure, but the app won’t run due to translocation or whatever Apple call it. I realise times have changed and protection against wilful menance is now a reality, but now the user can’t even allow a program that they know is perfectly safe to run (as far as I know).
I am not interested in the Mac App Store, it does not suit my type of specialised hobby program, and if I wanted to develop there I would change to Apple’s own development software which is free unlike Xojo. The joy of Xojo was that I could write almost anything I liked and distibute it easily on many platforms. That is now not possible with Sierra. I refuse to upgrade my own Mac beyond Yosemite actually, because again Apple stopped supporting Aperture.
My Mac software will gradually die as more people upgrade to Sierra, though ironically Windows Users (for now anyway) have no problem downloading and running it.
I have been using Xojo since the CrossBasic days, and it has been very good for me. Shareware was king, but Apple have no interest in that as it doesn’t make them any money.
All very sad.
The app will run on right click Open. And for all intents and purposes, transparently to the user.
Translocation does not prevent an app to run, it simply runs it in a safe place to make sure it does not mess the Applications folder.
What you must make sure of, hence, is to avoid such things as placing files next to the app and expect to find them with
getFolderItem("").child("myfile") because you cannot expect the app to be next to the file. If you make sure to place your files in ApplicationData, you will be just fine.
That may require some refactoring, but nothing out of this world.
No need to overreact. Indeed, Sierra is more demanding in terms of security, but you can still provide your freeware. Just make sure to instruct your users so they don’t expect it to run by simple drag to the Applications folder.
For the record, I have been a member of Association of Shareware Professionals since 1987, and did have several freeware around before that.
Now that I have reached retirement age and my income is not what it was way back when, I do not have the luxury of being a simple hobbyist. If I did not have the Mac App Store, I would certainly be in a much worse situation. I appreciate the way Apple makes it easy for a single developer to access it’s huge market with a minimum of efforts.
Thanks for that, the problem I have is that I do have a file with the App and the very first thing the app does is look for it and loads it. The user needs to be able to find that file and edit it if they wish. How I get the necessary file in to ApplicationData is another thing to overcome unless I use an installer. Then the user may want to find and edit the file, so what was simple and easy for the user and me to understand has become much harder. Just not the Mac way at all.
Fortunately my particular software is used by Windows Users predominantly, as that is the platform of choice for this particular hobby, despite valient attempts to persuade them that the Mac way was far better.
I had a comment from a long time user that I met personally for the first time the other day, and he was complimenting the program because he used it daily, and had not had a single software update to my program in all that time. I explained it was laziness on my part, and I had been ill and not had time to devote to programming, but he insisted it was a sign of a well written program that it didn’t need continual updates to run. I was rather hoping that this would continue, but clearly it won’t.
My licence for Xojo is years out if date, my Mac OS is years out if date. I feel like I have been left behind and indeed I have.
I don’t think I have the will to continue as I don’t want to even install Sierra on any of my own Macs. Perhaps if I was younger and healthier I would.[quote=302266:@Michel Bujardet]The app will run on right click Open. And for all intents and purposes, transparently to the user.
Translocation does not prevent an app to run, it simply runs it in a safe place to make sure it does not mess the Applications folder.
What you must make sure of, hence, is to avoid such things as placing files next to the app and expect to find them with
getFolderItem("").child("myfile") because you cannot expect the app to be next to the file. If you make sure to place your files in ApplicationData, you will be just fine.
That may require some refactoring, but nothing out of this world.
No need to overreact. Indeed, Sierra is more demanding in terms of security, but you can still provide your freeware. Just make sure to instruct your users so they don’t expect it to run by simple drag to the Applications folder.
For the record, I have been a member of Association of Shareware Professionals since 1987, and did have several freeware around before that.
Now that I have reached retirement age and my income is not what it was way back when, I do not have the luxury of being a simple hobbyist. If I did not have the Mac App Store, I would certainly be in a much worse situation. I appreciate the way Apple makes it easy for a single developer to access it’s huge market with a minimum of efforts.[/quote]
I see. Then the logic would be to place the file in the Documents folder, within a subfolder by the name of your app.
This is done by simply creating the subfolder and copying the file from the bundle the first time the app is run. Drag the file into the project, so it is in the Resources subfolder of the bundle. Use Tim Parnell’s TPSF class to point to it, then use copyFileTo to place it in Documents.
It is far from being out of this world. Off the top of my head :
[code]Dim f as folderItem
f = TPSF.Resources.child(“myfile”)
dim dest as folderItem = specialFolder.Documents.child(“myApp”)
if not dest.exists then
dest.createasfolder
end if
f.copyfileTo(dest)
[/code]
Interestingly enough, this code is perfectly cross-platform, and will work just as well on Windows.
[quote=302295:@Michel Bujardet]I see. Then the logic would be to place the file in the Documents folder, within a subfolder by the name of your app.
This is done by simply creating the subfolder and copying the file from the bundle the first time the app is run. Drag the file into the project, so it is in the Resources subfolder of the bundle. Use Tim Parnell’s TPSF class to point to it, then use copyFileTo to place it in Documents.
It is far from being out of this world. Off the top of my head :
[code]Dim f as folderItem
f = TPSF.Resources.child(“myfile”)
dim dest as folderItem = specialFolder.Documents.child(“myApp”)
if not dest.exists then
dest.createasfolder
end if
f.copyfileTo(dest)
[/code]
Interestingly enough, this code is perfectly cross-platform, and will work just as well on Windows.[/quote]
Maybe I should just not ship the text file at all with my App and have it available as a separate download and the user can stick it in the folder beside my Program, would that work? I already have a facility within my program for the user to choose a path to the file, as the particular text file has uses by other programs.
I also ship separately add on “driver” programs that communicate using sockets with my main program that the user has to plonk into the folder along with the program.
I know this all sounds rather crude, but it was written last century and has worked well in dozens of countries around the world. The only guy that has a problem is the Japanese user who has Sierra.
You probably wonder what devilish hobby this all relates to, it is amateur “ham” radio, specifically “Moonbounce” and the software is used to calculate the moon and sun and other cosmic sources positions, pathloss, allow scheduling between stations, that is calculate mutual Moon windows. It has maps showing Moon footprint. It also has the ability to use realtime position of the target object and control a number of different computer controlled rotator systems via serial links, so that antennas can track the moon, sun etc. The software has grown over the years from something very small that just ran on a classic Mac system into a multi platform program. I dread to think how much time I spent developing it in my spare time. It still sells despite there being some free programs that do something similar, but are generally one platform only.
I handle all the orders via PayPal, and email out registration codes manually. Being shareware try before you buy gives the user a chance to make sure it runs and does what they want and if not they don’t order the registration code, but can use it in demo mode which has a few limitations in terms of session time.
I frequently added new rotator driver programs as users requested them, hardly any 2 manufacturers use the same protocols. I don’t charge for the rotator drivers, they are free to all registered users. I don’t charge for any updates to the software. I used to charge for licences for different platforms, but have even stopped that.
As anyone who is involved in shareware knows, the user especially the Windows user, frequently loses their registration code (their hard drive broke), despite being warned to write it down somewhere, and a great deal of time is spent resending details to users. I don’t charge for that either, but probably could and should.
So, they get a pretty good deal for 35 UKP I feel. I pay PayPal fees, and the taxman gets his share as well. So I am not making a living from this, I am lucky if it pays for Xojo licence. It’s a true labour of love. It’s not something that is suitable for the Mac App Store.
If you’re not targeting the Mac App Store you don’t have to keep your ADP subscription current. A code signature is valid for five years. $100/5 = $20/yr. For your product, you’ll get that back in one sale.
As Tim and Michel say; it’s $99 a year and you don’t have to ship on the App Store. In fact your app would be rejected.
You get two code signing identities, one for App dtore submission and one for web distribution. The web distribution identity lasts for 5 years.
I would also recommend using my App Wrapper for code signing; although you can do it with other tools (just none are as comprehensive as App Wrapper).
If you honestly don’t feel that supporting the Mac is worth it, then I urge you to seriously think about it. Some marketing (which is not exciting I know) will help increase visibility of your application and will increase sales.
However the state of the Mac isn’t looking good for the future; we don’t know what Apple is up to, but one thing for sure they are driving creative professionals away and Microsoft is welcoming them with open arms. Apple killing Aperture was the first step, I saw a lot of Photogs move to Adobe Lightroom. Then as time has gone by, I’ve seen them move to Windows, Adobe software performs better and is slated to be more stable on Windows.
It’s very shocking to watch the YouTube comparison videos with the brand new MBP and a similar priced Windows machine. In some tests Adobe Premier is 3x faster on Windows and doesn’t cause the graphical glitches that it does on the new MBP.
IMHO Apple needs to build a machine that the tech industry says is fantastic and love it, not one where Apple have to tell people what to think.
I still think the proper way is to place the file in the Documents folder.
I would not vouch on that. Obviously even if the Ham community is tight in the UK & US, the App Store is worldwide, and reaches every single corner of the planet. The App Store is IMHO the easiest way of distributing software, with much less overhead than a web site with Paypal.
I am selling fonts, and some of them not that obvious, and they do get bought.
Along the same line, is the Windows Store, which apparently is picking just fine with Windows 10.
Of course, you would imperatively have to accept to place your text file in ApplicationDate. To open that folder, just do:
dim f as folderItem = specialfolder.ApplicationData.child("myfolder")
f.launch
This is not always the case. I use Photoshop on both platforms, the Windows version has much more bugs…
[quote=302369:@Sam Rowlands]As Tim and Michel say; it’s $99 a year and you don’t have to ship on the App Store. In fact your app would be rejected.
You get two code signing identities, one for App dtore submission and one for web distribution. The web distribution identity lasts for 5 years.
I would also recommend using my App Wrapper for code signing; although you can do it with other tools (just none are as comprehensive as App Wrapper).
If you honestly don’t feel that supporting the Mac is worth it, then I urge you to seriously think about it. Some marketing (which is not exciting I know) will help increase visibility of your application and will increase sales.
However the state of the Mac isn’t looking good for the future; we don’t know what Apple is up to, but one thing for sure they are driving creative professionals away and Microsoft is welcoming them with open arms. Apple killing Aperture was the first step, I saw a lot of Photogs move to Adobe Lightroom. Then as time has gone by, I’ve seen them move to Windows, Adobe software performs better and is slated to be more stable on Windows.
It’s very shocking to watch the YouTube comparison videos with the brand new MBP and a similar priced Windows machine. In some tests Adobe Premier is 3x faster on Windows and doesn’t cause the graphical glitches that it does on the new MBP.
IMHO Apple needs to build a machine that the tech industry says is fantastic and love it, not one where Apple have to tell people what to think.[/quote]
Sam, I agree about Apple and Aperture, that was a clear sign to me that they were changing emphasis.
I had purchased Aperture from day 1 and to have it abandoned was extremely sad. I hate other platforms for photography and for software development. I only use a Windows PC for amateur radio as I am forced to if I wish to use the latest software that is all developed for Windows first and foremost. The hardware is pretty good for the money too. I keep my Macs for internet, email, photography, and a little software development and Arduino software.
Regarding marketing, as this is a hobby and I know the very small elite group who do amateur radio moonbounce, it is all word of mouth, magazine mentions, and so on. It’s not the type of program that anyone would be interested in if they were not already into moonbounce. In other words very specialised software for a small subset of radio amateurs.
I may look at ways of offering it for Sierra, but I am coming to the conclusion that it would not be worth it. Few people buy expensive Macs with ever decreasing interface connections for use for this kind of work. If they have any ambitions they will buy a Windows PC, as I was forced to do, even after years of using VM’s to try and utilise my Mac.
I keep getting annoying you do not have permission to post errors on this site, what is that all about?
It happens to me when I try to post to a page I left open for too long. Usually reload does the trick.
That must be it. I have taken to copying my reply and saving it as a note now, as it keeps happening, I am using an iPad here, hence the silly word substitutions at times.
Same versions?
I don’t have a Windows machine, so I can only go by what I read and I’m seeing more and more people coming from Mac to Windows to run Abode software and being blown away by the performance increase. It would also appear that a lot of the graphic crashes with the new tbMBP is down to Adobe software being incompatible with either the drivers or the actual graphics hardware (although I’ve read reports of the graphics crashes with Apple’s Photos app too). Which of course the compatible reports on YouTube illustrate do not happen with Adobe apps on Windows. But like you say; I’m sure there’s a different subset of issues.
When I first met my wife she would have to restart her PC every single day otherwise she couldn’t save anything in Illustrator! She couldn’t believe that you didn’t have to do this on a Mac!
Yes, exactly the same version. I cannot really resize as I want on PC, for instance, because it does not permit disengaging aspect ratio. And there are numerous little annoyances like that.
That said, indeed Windows hardware has considerably improved, is even getting as cute as Mac in some respect, and Windows 10, in spite of the inevitable criticism from angry people, is getting extremely good and stable.
As someone who has lived with both Mac and PC since the very early eighties, I have seldom seen PC able to compete. Now at long last, it is getting closer to Mac. I still feel Mac has a small edge, though. Let alone because double buffering makes app completely flicker free.
I wonder frankly why none of these ultra famous NVidia cards has double buffering. But of course, none of them is meant for professional use : they are all designed for gamers !
When I used Windows with VirtualBox, I noticed that the used harware is not the cause, but Windows.
Single / simple example: ctrl+w usually close the front window, but not in Paint. A real pain.
Another for the road: What happens when you select an icon (in the explorer) and you press the Return key in WIndows ?
I forgot, but I recall that it was not what I expected.
So I had some success getting one user on Sierra to download and install my application. What I did was distribute the App as a zip and the folder with the documentation and the text database file as another zip. Then instructed the user to unzip the folder and move it to Applications folder. Then unzip the App and move it to the folder. Then do the Control click on the App Icon and Open it from there to allow an unsigned app to run. That worked just fine, but honestly not ideal. It was more a test of how it all works. I don’t have Sierra here on any of my Machines, so I relied on the user to try it for me. Free registration to that man of course.
Xojo (and others) provide a DMG file. The user open the file and the Finder displays a window with simple instruction(s) to install the software.
Ask if you do not understand what I mean (and never open a Xojo for macOS dmg file.
BTW: using a zip is not bad, but macOS users know what to do with dmg file(s).