Freemium will continue

Not always open source is the good option, I think that in Xojo it cannot be good. I am very glad of the freemium model, also if I bought a simple desktop license while I am still learning. Anyway, before to go to triaI, I suggest insert some limit in freemium Xojo license model, sot that it is not permit to run a production app for long time. Really I don’t know if it can increase the number of license sold. More, I suggest, to follow better who is on freemium license with some kind of interview to do directly on web by simple pools. Questions like programming level skills, which tutorial they did, where they found learning books, what they like and dislike with direct on definite questions, what they want to do with Xojo… and so on…

In the UK a US gallon of petrol is $6.91 at today’s exchange rate! You guys are soooooo lucky!

Yes indeed. France and UK are amongst the most expensive :wink:

http://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/

This was (nearly: $99) the price of REALbasic 1.0.

Have a look there INSEE

Smallest hour price to pay workers was:
$6.83 in 2002
$9.61 in 2015

One use its own reference to judge things.

[quote=189386:@Emile Schwarz]Smallest hour price to pay workers was:
$6.83 in 2002
$9.61 in 2015[/quote]
A 2.66% increase YoY

Sorry: currency error: € instead of $.

2.66% ? I think more 26.6%…

[quote=189386:@Emile Schwarz]Have a look there INSEE

Smallest hour price to pay workers was:
$6.83 in 2002
$9.61 in 2015

One use its own reference to judge things.[/quote]

Minimum wage is not really reflective of inflation, as it is essentially the result of a political decision. But yet, inflation itself can be measured by many things, and economists constantly battle about what is significant. Reason why I picked arbitrarily the price of gas, since a lot of people refer to it in everyday life in the US.

The reference point changes with cultures as well. In France, people refer much less to the price of gas and prefer the price of bread (prix de la baguette), which has evolved pretty much the same way
http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2015/04/15/20002-20150415ARTFIG00082-non-les-prix-ne-se-sont-pas-envoles-avec-l-euro.php

My point was less the nitty gritty of inflation than to say that RB/Xojo prices had not increased in 22 years much more than the price of other goods.

No.

You should read up on compound interest. It’s 2.66% YoY

Not 22 years. Sorry. 13. In Internet years, it feels like a century…

You cant compile
Running an app from sources isn’t what many would consider a “production use”
Some might though

We should compare Big Mac prices
In 2002 a Big Mac, in CDN dollars, was 3.33 (USD 2.12)
In 2015 a Big Mac, in CDN dollars, is 5.70 (USD 4.64)
Not quite double over the course of 13 years

[quote=189414:@Norman Palardy]We should compare Big Mac prices
In 2002 a Big Mac, in CDN dollars, was 3.33 (USD 2.12)
In 2015 a Big Mac, in CDN dollars, is 5.70 (USD 4.64)
Not quite double over the course of 13 years[/quote]
4.22% YoY

Prices grew faster than income.

Oh man, this is awesome news. I expressed disappointment and concern with the other forum entry, and the reverse of this leaves me needing to express my thanks! I know I’m a harsh critic most of the time, but where thanks and praise is deserved I think it should be given as well. I believe Xojo did the right move here, and appreciate you guys re-looking into it.

Oil price dropped by 50% and only a bunch of Euro cents (10 to 15) due to fixed taxes in the oil price in France.

Recent Oil prices were around $50 (standard container of around 161l), previous prices were around $110. The liter on France streets were 1.35€ and they falled to 1.10€/l, now 1.21€/l (gasole).

If you make a comparison from the 1970 (~SMIC) to 2014 (the last one) vs oil price in the streets (same money, 1 l), you will be astonished by the low raise of oil.

My point was less the nitty gritty of inflation than to say that RB/Xojo prices had not increased
in 22 years much more than the price of other goods.
Not my income.

And the inflate rate are computer based on a bunch of products. The higher the price is the lower the raise will be. The lower the price was, the higher the price raise when the product is still on sale (they remove the very low products to make people take the other products).
The lowest priced products are not in the inflate base products and so that value (%) is not even a clue.

The real clue is that in the last 20 years, rich people become richer and poorer persons became poorer…

Now, we are far from Xojo.

Thank you for continuing Freemiun. I am quite sure that all educational people will be happy by this change.
I also recall (a bit) the demo mode because I wanted t use it to send demos and I really was unhappy with it.
Now for my demo mode, I know how to do: DIY is better than relying on other’s work.

Xojo Strong And Green !

[quote=189489:@Emile Schwarz]Not my income.
…/…
The real clue is that in the last 20 years, rich people become richer and poorer persons became poorer…[/quote]

I do not think your income falls under the responsibility of Xojo, nor the wealth increase.

Why is it so difficult to understand that a company such as Xojo needs to raise its prices with time to maintain its level of service and research and development ?

But you are comparing apples to oranges. Renewals (or upgrading to new versions before the changes to subscription) was never close to full price. In the long run that makes the product much more expensive to keep current (and if you need/want) to compile you really do need to keep current if for no other reason than bug fixes and to keep up with OS changes.

My point was simply the more licenses they sell the less they need to charge to be able to expand the product AND make a GOOD profit.

I believe Xojo has a large number of users that don’t make money with it, that have and will continue to renew their licenses at the right price - and that includes Pro licenses…

Too high a renewal price and then freemium (or perhaps moving to a free platform specific option they can compile) overcomes the emotional desire to be able to compile with Xojo even if there is no immediate need.

Let me tell you how it works for me…

When I had a RealStudio Enterprise License I wrote some standalone web apps… Now with only a desktop license, even though I know I could code them I find myself unmotivated to do so because I know I will have to pay more to deploy… Does that make sense? Maybe not, but it that is how it affects me and I doubt I’m alone.

For iOS it’s even worst knowing that even if I had a license to compile, I would still have to give Apple more money just to be able to deploy to my own iOS device (I don’t have a current one BTW just an iPod Touch from 2009 ) or make an iOS app for in-house use at work for use by others (I do stuff for work on my own initiative on my own time and dime).

Without a desktop license I doubt I would try to do anything of significance with Xojo.

So freemium, besides having the convience of being able to install Xojo on any desktop commuter I might want to debug on, without having to muck with license transfers, is not very attractive to me.

Frankly I would rather have half price renewals than freemium.

That is why i HOPE Freemium actually does bring in a LOT more paying customers in the long run, and if it does Xojo Inc does not get too ‘greedy’ as most other companies tend to.

  • Karen

Karen, you are right on. I have continually upgraded since the days of version 1.1 or 1.2. With renewals being 1/2 the price of the original purchase I didn’t see it as a bad deal. In fact I considered it an incentive to continue upgrading to each new version. I am an old retired guy who wrote programs primarily in PL/I on IBM mainframes for 34 years. RB/XOJO are simply a means for me to continue on with programming apps for myself and friends. I have never made a dime with the product and have no plans to do so in the future. I just keep up to date because I personally wish to have the latest and greatest. However, the new pricing scheme is going to make it much more difficult to decide to continue on with this idea of being up to date all of the time. So, if it ends up that I do feel that the new price scheme has gone too high then that is certainly a loss to the folks at XOJO and the loss is twice as large as what it would have been in the past.

Also, I am glad to see that freemium is going to continue. If it didn’t I would have a number of friends and aquaintances who would be angry with me after I tell them about this great way to learn programming using XOJO. That would have been a tough one to explain. :wink:

I am comparing list price to list price. I never talked about renewals. THAT is apples and apricots. If you really want to factor that in, you must average the price per year based on the price actually paid. I am sure it is way less than $149.95 a year.

Seems to me there are irreconcilable positions here : on one side, professionals who can make enough money in a few sales to largely pay for the Pro version (6 or 7 $99.95 sales or probably any custom development contract). On the other side, people who program as a leisure, like Harrie. You seem to be in between, using Xojo in your work without being compensated.

Freemium aside which is indeed completely costless, I doubt Xojo can get cheap enough to accommodate the parameters of all people who program on their own wallets. First of all because wallet sizes change, and secondly because it is a matter of how much someone is willing to invest in its own pleasure. Because also at that point, Xojo competes with other past time such as movies, Netflix, ice cream, travel, books or whatever else.

Yes indeed, the only way prices can get affordable for all is by having a maximum of professionals who do well enough to purchase the most expensive product in store every year like clockwork.

Is that so long ago that the version does not run anymore ?

There has been a lot of needed changes in that framework since that time. I know some web apps I wrote back the do not work now … never went back to figure out why.

[quote=189542:@Michel Bujardet]I am comparing list price to list price. I never talked about renewals. THAT is apples and apricots.
[/quote]
Total cost of ownership is what matters to me.

[quote] If you really want to factor that in, you must average the price per year based on the price actually paid. I am sure it is way less than $149.95 a year.

[/quote]

You are wrong.

Since I first bought in April 2001 to date I have paid Xojo inc $4,463.95 . My current desktop license expires in Feb 2020, So for 19 years it’s $234.94 not counting that older money was worth more… And the only reason THAT number is not significantly higher is because I took advantage of multiyear renewals before price increases.

I’m not so sure that is true… It would depend on the ratio of pros to non-pros that buy licenses…

  • Karen