Considering Xojo

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  2. 2 weeks ago

    Dave S

    Apr 6 San Diego, California USA
    Edited 2 weeks ago

    @Ralph A The Xojo Store shows Database Access is included in Desktop, iOS and Web editions.

    I was thinking of the "Lite" version......which is SQLite only

    Also be aware you can download the "FREE" version and write you application and evaluate Xojo.... then when you want to compile it for deployement, at that time buy the license

  3. Just try the free version and you can find out if Xojo works for you or not.

    If it works for you, just design and create your application. When everything works as expected and you are ready to build the application itself, buy a license.

    I am using Xojo since 2005 and am still happy to use it, despite having sometimes my frustrations.

    Xojo can do certainly more for you than Filemaker can.

  4. Bob K

    Apr 6 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Kansas City

    One of the things to be aware of is that Xojo isn't as integrated with the database as FileMaker is. So you'll have to build up your database coding skills a bit. I suggest you start off proving you can connect to a database and then display some basic data in list form and in add/edit form. Then do some basic insert, update, delete stuff and at by that point you'll be most of the way there. Then it's just doing the UI and it's a lot of rinse, recycle, and repeat.

    If you want your database code to be more object oriented you can go with something like ActiveRecord. But I'd recommend going through and doing the above first.

    Reporting might be a gotcha as the built-in reporting isn't very good but it might be good-enough for what you're doing. If it's not, you can take a look at BKS Shorts which has a Report Designer component for Desktop apps. The Report Viewer works on both desktop and web and you have the ability to do dynamic (i.e. change some parameters at runtime).

    We've been using Xojo for 17 years and offer developer products and do a fair bit of consulting. We offer training videos if that's your sort of thing. www.bkeeney.com

  5. Dave S

    Apr 6 San Diego, California USA

    FM is a DATABASE with a programming language attached
    Xojo is a programming language with the ability to attach Database(s)

  6. Jean-Yves P

    Apr 6 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Europe (France, Besancon)

    @Dave S FM is a DATABASE with a programming language attached
    Xojo is a programming language with the ability to attach Database(s)

    for FM "programming" is not appropriate.
    "scripting" would be a better term.

  7. 5 days ago

    Cynthia H

    is not verified Apr 14 Salt Lake City, UT
    Edited 5 days ago

    Thanks, everyone! When I worked as a programmer (I'm retired) I used programs with DBs attached, so have experience in both. Sometimes I feel a little too constrained about how Database oriented Filemaker is.

    The reporting limits may or may not be a big deal... most of my reports are just generated to PDF for viewing or saving. The 'meat' of the application is taking and process dog sports entries... my Filemaker application is for Barn Hunt. So mostly a person will enter their dog into a trial, get an email confirmation.. the software tracks the people, dogs, events... and allows the secretary to score individual runs for each dog, produce results, email results and export a spreadsheet that is used by the Barn Hunt Association, so needs to be formatted to their specifications and uploaded to their site.

    I don't like that the Filemaker Runtime doesn't support PDF exports. And it's XLS exports are also limited.

    I can't require these dog clubs to buy a full Filemaker license. They are small and don't make money and usually just want to break even so they can put on more trials. Most of the applications that exist now are just Access DBs thrown together to track these things. I prefer my Mac and develop on my Mac and want to provide both a Mac and Windows application.

    Can the Windows version be produced on the Mac, or is Windows required? I have a Windows laptop but it's old and slow.

    I may try Xojo for another type of dog trial I'm planning on doing an application for... Scent Work. I've been working on my current one since last July and it's just about ready to go.

    Thanks again!

  8. Dave S

    Apr 14 San Diego, California USA
    Edited 5 days ago

    @Cynthia H Can the Windows version be produced on the Mac, or is Windows required? I have a Windows laptop but it's old and slow.

    With the correct license the answer is yes, but it is highly suggested to have a Windows computer (or VM) to test the compiled app just "to be sure" you dotted all the "t"s and crossed all the "i"s

    Xojo comes with SQLite baked in, and other DB's can be accessed with the proper drivers etc.

    And there are plenty of 3rd party add-ons to produce PDF files..... one being my own gPDF class, which uses the same syntax as the Xojo Canvas/Printer controls

  9. Cynthia H

    is not verified Apr 14 Salt Lake City, UT

    Ah great thanks, yeah I'll hang onto my Windows laptop just in case. :)

    The plugins for Filemaker seemed very expensive... at least the one I was looking at. At least for reselling, it was over $1200. :(

  10. Dave S

    Apr 14 San Diego, California USA

    Xojo imposes no royalty or resell fees..... you buy the license, you write your code, you compile it.... and do with it as you please.

    As to 3rd party "plug-ins" we all have our opinions.... mine is not to use them...(I have always found a solution).... but the argument here is "time is money".... personally I can afford to invest the time

    Also, you DO NOT have to buy a new license every year.... only if it contains features you need/want... You can continue to use the last purchased version until a) you want to upgrade, or b) the version of Xojo you have won't work with latest OS (and I *think* the last time that happened was many years ago?)

  11. Christian S

    Apr 14 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro, XDC Speakers Germany

    Well, you can of course buy Xojo plus a few plugins.
    MBS Plugins are there for Xojo and FileMaker to do things.

    For FileMaker, well it does a lot and if you made a solution for them, you can ship a runtime and let them print though PDF Printer on Windows or print to PDF on Mac. This way you may not miss the PDF exporter.

    Doing the same in Xojo will be significant work.
    And if the client buys himself a FM Pro copy and a plugin license, that may be cheaper than rewriting everything in Xojo!

    Xojo is usually great, if you want to save a lot of FileMaker licenses, e.g. for a data collecting web app.

  12. 4 days ago

    Xojo is awesome, fun once you get the hang of it, and makes cross-platform development quite easy (I code on Mac but my users are often PC-only). For PDF, though you may have to invest in a third-party plug-in (royalty-free and not very expensive). Excel may also take some work or plug-ins, unless you just export CSV, which is simple.

  13. Karen A

    Apr 15 Pre-Release Testers

    @Julia T Xojo is awesome, fun once you get the hang of it, and makes cross-platform development quite easy (I code on Mac but my users are often PC-only). For PDF, though you may have to invest in a third-party plug-in (royalty-free and not very expensive). Excel may also take some work or plug-ins, unless you just export CSV, which is simple.

    The Einhugur plugin set is fairly inexpensive and renewals are a REAL bargain... Lots of useful stuff including enough PDF and excel support for a lot of uses as well as lot of other useful functions (Zip, Barcodes, encryption, image manipulation and a bunch of controls among other things)

    It's PDF support is no where near that of the MBS DynaPDF plugin but is sufficient for most PDF creation, and there also is enough support of creating and and reading excel spreadsheets. for may uses, again not nearly as comprehensive as the MBS support of LibXL, but overall it is a lot less expensive.

  14. 2 days ago

    Cynthia H

    is not verified Apr 17 Salt Lake City, UT

    Xojo is sounding better and better to me... I've put almost a year into my Filemaker application... so, for now, I'll stay with that for the current one, but when I convert it to work for Nosework trials... I think I may also convert it to Xojo.

    One thing that is bugging me about Filemaker is having to flip to a Layout based on a certain table to access that table's data. And then I'm struggling with a Drop Down / Pop up menu where I'm trying to populate it with dynamic data from an un-related table... UGH. I use a LOT of SQL in my Filemaker App, so I can access data directly. :P

  15. Markus W

    Apr 17 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro #JeSuisHuman Germany, Heidelb...

    You should probably also have a look at Hal Gumbert’s (of FileMaker fame) open-source Xanadu for Xojo

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5sFaBmLP3gc

    http://www.campsoftware.com/products/xanadu-for-xojo.php

    And while you’re at it also look at Tim Dietrich’s Aloe …

    https://aloe.zone

    Those two will make your transition MUCH easier.

  16. Hal G

    Apr 17 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro, XDC Speakers Orlando, FL

    Tim will be releasing an update to Aloe Express soon and Xanadu be updated to use Aloe Express very soon!*

    Very soon, meaning before my XDC talk... Not sure I should have decided to refactor everything so close to XDC. :)

  17. Julian S

    Apr 17 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro UK

    @Hal G Very soon, meaning before my XDC talk... Not sure I should have decided to refactor everything so close to XDC.

    Productivity increases 1000% when a deadline is close :D

  18. Markus W

    Apr 17 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro #JeSuisHuman Germany, Heidelb...

    @Julian S Productivity increases 1000% when a deadline is close :D

    That’s why I used to start preparing my talks the evening before …

  19. Michael D

    Apr 17 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro

    @Cynthia H One thing that is bugging me about Filemaker is having to flip to a Layout based on a certain table to access that table's data. And then I'm struggling with a Drop Down / Pop up menu where I'm trying to populate it with dynamic data from an un-related table... UGH. I use a LOT of SQL in my Filemaker App, so I can access data directly. :P

    I use both Xojo and FileMaker extensively, and there are pros & cons on both sides. I love the fact that multiple people can edit a running FileMaker database while it's in use - changes update immediately across all logged in users. The database engine is rock solid (I haven't had any database corruption in years).

    FYI, you don't have to switch layouts in FileMaker to access other data: there is an "ExecuteSQL" function which can be really handy, especially if you are SQL-experienced and know what you are doing.

  20. Hal G

    Apr 17 Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro, XDC Speakers Orlando, FL

    @Michael D I love the fact that multiple people can edit a running FileMaker database while it's in use - changes update immediately across all logged in users.

    Yep. FileMaker makes creating databases really fast and easy. Just add a field to a table and drag it to a layout and it's ready for users to use. On top of that, as Michael said, you can even edit the tables / layouts as users are using it. It's freaking cool... I should say that I have big issues with how FileMaker treats their 'partners' in the FBA along with the jacked up pricing since v12. I could go on and on... Anyway, I created Xanadu to leave FileMaker behind.

    Xojo + Aloe + Xanadu is getting me closer to those FileMaker benefits. So far adding a field to a table, in MySQL, and then adding it to a form is super easy, but I can't add the field to the form on the fly, yet... The coolest part about Xanadu is not having to add ANY code other than the form field. The setting and saving of the field is all automatic unless you need to massage the data which is also easy to do!

    Tim recently added Templates to Aloe [ https://aloe.zone/resources/docs/classes.html ] which would add the ability to add fields to forms on the fly. :)

  21. Jean-Yves P

    2 days ago Pre-Release Testers, Xojo Pro Europe (France, Besancon)

    I also do these kind of things with the tool I wrote for making my databases... in xojo.
    just create the field in the tool, and it is available to the app.
    you can subclass the default window and make the fields look better if you want, but the default behavior is enough to edit it.
    -image-

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