Xojo, Mac App Store and Oh My...

I’ve started this new thread as we’ve overtaken the one about Retina, with discussion based upon a possible rumor that Apple may be enforcing 64-Bit only apps on the Mac App Store.

Oh my…

I just can’t resist answering Wayne’s questions, but feel guilty for jacking the thread…

Enforcing? I haven’t seen a rumor to this effect - can you fill me in?

Your current, already submitted 32 bit content, will keep going, the enforcement will be just for the new submissions and nobody knows when will be the date of the cut.

[quote=92935:@Norman Palardy]This years WWDC kind of scares me.
What if this guy gets it right (Rich is one of the makers of BBedit) If Apple stopped accepting Carbon & 32 bit Cocoa apps in the store ……. ick[/quote]

I got a bit upset, alright, a lot upset because if they do enforce this, it would have messed with our forthcoming application (which we’re now busting our asses to get all the assets ready for submitting to Apple before next week).

I know it’s a rumor, but the thing is, Apple have recently taken the habit of just changing the rules, and letting us find out when our app gets rejected. It’s also a plausible rumor as 64-Bit machines have been around long enough and the last two OS versions are 64-Bit only.

The rumor claims it will be like the Sandbox rule, i.e if your app is there already, you can do ‘bug fixes’ for FREE (maybe wrong term), but feature releases will have to be 64-Bit.

I loved telling my customers, I have added that feature, but because of Sandboxing issues you’ll have to wait.

Who would ever that thought that at some point, Windows could be the most hospitable platform for Real Studio / Xojo apps? Unreal.

[quote=93490:@Sam Rowlands]I got a bit upset, alright, a lot upset because if they do enforce this, it would have messed with our forthcoming application (which we’re now busting our asses to get all the assets ready for submitting to Apple before next week).

I know it’s a rumor, but the thing is, Apple have recently taken the habit of just changing the rules, and letting us find out when our app gets rejected. It’s also a plausible rumor as 64-Bit machines have been around long enough and the last two OS versions are 64-Bit only.[/quote]

Oh. That is indeed a scary prospect. Just checking the Mavericks system requirements there, I’m pretty sure they’re all 64-bit machines. I guess there’s not much stopping them doing this.

I wouldn’t call this a rumor by the way, the BBEdit guy was making prognostications. This is how rumors start :wink:

Requiring a 64 bit capable CPU has been true for ages
That happened about the time they dropped support for the original Intel Core Duo’s (not the Core 2 Duo’s which were 64 bit)

[quote=93500:@Norman Palardy]Requiring a 64 bit capable CPU has been true for ages
That happened about the time they dropped support for the original Intel Core Duo’s (not the Core 2 Duo’s which were 64 bit)[/quote]
Pretty sure early Core 2 Duos shipped with a 32-bit EFI though.

Hopefully they will at least give us warning of several months. They do sometimes. Xojo would be far from the only tool affected.

That may very well be true Gavin.
I have an older Mac Mini that can run up to 10.6 but not 10.7 etc so that may be its limiting factor.
Haven’t really looked at it hard though as it’s just an older spare machine sitting around doing mostly nothing now :slight_smile:

It sure would be nice to have a different relationship with Apple than the “Hey surprise!” style we have now

I hope that Xojo can than release in short a 64 bit Version from their magic hat.

In the moment, I’m only interested in Mac OS development and wouldn’t like to be thwarted by not beeing able to sell software via Mac App Store.

64 bit is being worked on but we require other components to make it all happen

  1. the new compiler - which is also in progress - since our old compiler is 32bit only & making it 32 or 64 bit is a huge task just to eventually abandon it in favor of our new compiler anyways (We also need the new compiler for iOS etc so there’s LOTS of impetus to get this done)

  2. new 64 bit frameworks - which is mostly already possible to compile without a way to test since we don’t have a 64 bit compiler to make a 64 bit app we can test

  3. a 64 bit linker - which goes along with the 64 bit compiler - to link together all the compiled code to make a 64 bit app

  4. and the IDE & debugger will need to be updated to deal with 32/64 bit as well just to be sure things work as expected

[quote=93554:@Norman Palardy]1) the new compiler - which is also in progress - since our old compiler is 32bit only & making it 32 or 64 bit is a huge task just to eventually abandon it in favor of our new compiler anyways (We also need the new compiler for iOS etc so there’s LOTS of impetus to get this done)

  1. new 64 bit frameworks - which is mostly already possible to compile without a way to test since we don’t have a 64 bit compiler to make a 64 bit app we can test

  2. a 64 bit linker - which goes along with the 64 bit compiler - to link together all the compiled code to make a 64 bit app

  3. and the IDE & debugger will need to be updated to deal with 32/64 bit as well just to be sure things work as expected[/quote]

Hmm… if I read between lines here: Xojo isn’t ready for 64bit for a very long way?
Is it fair to say Xojo Inc should now give 64bit a very high priority? Delay iOS if needed. I mean, a lot of Xojo devs (read: devs who are making money for a living - me included) are going to be left alone in the cold dark.

Seeing Apple also got rid of QT framework all of the sudden (without warning) it would make sense to do the same with 32bit and AppStore.

Incorrect - I said nothing about how far along any of these are.
Its more that we having dependencies between various bits.
We can’t do item 4 until we have 1,2 and 3 - but 1,2 and 3 can be worked on in parallel.
But they all have to be ready before we can do 4
And oddly enough working on iOS IS helping us in building the new compiler (since we will need much of it to target ARM) etc since our old compiler can’t emit ARM code.
So a bunch of the work for iOS is moving the new compiler ahead.

I really hope it’s not true. It’s taken me this long to completely rip out the heart of my app and replace all the QT stuff with AV Foundation. Even had to learn Core Audio programming and develop an Obj.C player to do all the fancy stuff I needed. Thankfully Christian was nice enough to make it into a plugin (which I know was a lot of work - he’s a life saver) so I didn’t have to learn how to do that too!

I’ll be gutted if I’ve done all this work only to find out that I still can’t release a long overdue update! Fingers crossed.

Folks - it’s one guys speculation about what will come at WWDC.
I have no magic crystal ball and even the folks we do talk to at Apple aren’t saying anything.

That said app updates will likely be grandfathered in - they usually have been

Let’s not panic until after Mondays keynote. Until then it’s all speculation.