Xojo Developer Fair Hourly Rate

Hello Guys,

i was wondering what would be a fair hourly rate for a Xojo developer , thinking on a project and to have an idea what should i expect.

Thanks .

your “rate” should depend on the project, your experience with the subject matter, your confidence that you can perform the task at or exceeding the requirements of the client, and of course what you figure the client is willing to pay.

It all boils down, to “what value are you adding to the customers business process”

Be aware, if you take on a project that exceeds you abilities or do not set your customers expectations properly, you are doomed to fail… and failures are hard to recover from in terms of future business with this or any other client.

So there is no “rate”… what I would charge, vs what you should charge might vary wildly.

well i know the story, thanks, i will have some short term projects and as well long term projects and i was thinking to get some extra heads to the team and wanted to know an average, or a min, max value not necesarly exact values. just to have an idea, don’t want to expect people saying 300$/hour but as well not for nothing.

A min range of 50$/hour whould be to much or to small ? for an average dev, i have few but they keep playing with us on prices so we want to sort them little bit in terms of what they know to do but as well to offer a fair price and not to get offended.

hope you got my point.

Thanks.

You are from USA?

Europe & Middle East

I’d expect that what a developer charges will, in part, reflect where they live.
Its more expensive in the USA, Canada, Europe than other places so just on cost of living those developers will probably charge more.
And you have to factor in things like years of experience etc

Even in the USA there are variances. I’ve gotten flack from competitors for our rates which they feel are too low. Kansas City is cheap to live here in comparison to someone living in New York, Chicago, LA, etc.

Your rates will reflect these conditions but also should reflect that you will have some downtime (especially as a solo developer), and if you want some vacation time, and that you are putting money aside for retirement. Your rate should probably be higher than you think it should be and don’t forget to write into your contracts (don’t work without a contract in place!) that you can adjust your rates on an annual basis since you don’t want to low ball yourself into a rate for a client that keeps having you do work for the next 5 or 10 years.

A rule of thumb that I’ve given to people getting into the consulting market is to figure out what you can live on if you are 50% billable, meaning out of a 40 hour week you’re only billing a client for 20 hours a week. The rest of the time you’re marketing, doing sales, doing training, or developing your own products. If you get above that great, but don’t expect it. And what seems weird, if you’re 100% billable that’s just as bad because you’re not doing all the other things required for long-term success in your business.

Anyway, good luck. A lot of people on here you can bounce ideas off of.

Well, even in Europe we have different price levels.

I would expect that a very good developer could charge 150 Euro in Germany.
And I would recommend 100 Euro/h to be taken seriously.

But for southern countries those rates could price you out of the market.
Even if you consider something like 20% discount for paying in advance for a block of 20 hours or so.

You need to find a rate where you are taken seriously, you deliver what people expect and still can make a living.
If you get too many work, your rate may be too low. If you don’t find work, you may offer cheaper rates.

As a general rule-of-thumb, I usually quote $100/hr for a longer contract (1-year) or about 5k per week in North America. If this is a rush-job (emergency) then it is about $200/hr - trying to fix someone else’s code is usually a nightmare. Typical work for smaller contracts (6-months in duration) is $150/hr.

Christian and Bob have made some very good points that should strongly be considered…

My rates are not just for Xojo, and are for any programming language. I have had to fix many projects where a company was awarded the lowest cost, and it usually ends up costing them twice as much. If the company were to have awarded the contract to a knowledgable company to begin with, then the total project would be less expensive. You get what you pay for.

When a company wants computer programming and technical knowledge (I.e. How do I fix something AND program it,) then the rate is $300/hr. Coaching someone to learn this work in the company often takes one year and much one-on-one time, this is $300/hr.

Others may have other experiences, and this is what I have seen.

I wish you the best with consulting. It is a rewarding field.

A company has problems with their computer system, they call in a expert. The expert shows up… looks at the system, walks over and presses a button… The system reboots and everything works perfectly. The expert submits his bill to the company for $1005.00… The CEO looks at him and says “$1005 for just pushing a button? are you crazy?”… The expert replys “No Sir… I charged you $5.00 for pushing the button, and $1000.00 for knowing which button to push”

I think the OP is trying to figure out what price to expect to be paying when hiring - not what price to charge

Well, than other way around. :slight_smile:

Professional developers need to charge professional rates.

I don’t think it unreasonable to ask a developer what their standard rate is and if they offer any type of discount on large projects. Ask what types of payment terms they have, bug fix policy, etc before getting to the contract stage. Of course, the contract should specify all this too.

One red flag for us is if you use the phrase, “there’s a bigger project in the future” trying to get a discount up front. Why is this a red flag? Because from experience that larger project rarely happens, or, if it does, it’s years in the future (in which case the discount is worthless). Just my two cents worth.

OOps… my mistake…

Either way he has an idea of what people charge and why

This is a variation of the Wizard of Schenectady. A true story.

[quote]Henry Ford was thrilled until he got an invoice from General Electric in the amount of $10,000. Ford acknowledged Steinmetz’s success but balked at the figure. He asked for an itemized bill.

Steinmetz, Scott wrote, responded personally to Ford’s request with the following:

Making chalk mark on generator $1.

Knowing where to make mark $9,999.

Ford paid the bill.[/quote]

Oaw , thanks a lot guys, i had an idea, i have an idea of rates as Norman said, the idea was as most of you mentioned to see what to expect when eventually getting people on the team and in the same way seeing the budgets for projects, of course prices are prices and all of them want if possible free as for the devs dream to get reach with 2 projects so trying to make happy both parties. so far i kind of got my answers thanks a lot for all of you.

We don’t charge by the hour because hourly tracking sucks.

We factor value added to project/business and how many days I expect to be working on it and charge a daily or weekly rate. Sometimes it takes us longer and we eat that and sometimes it takes less time and we win. You could spend months prototyping and estimating before you ever get to the real work.

I personally prefer to focus on outcomes: “Will deliver application that does X for Y platforms using Z components”. I am extremely straight forward as to what tools, packages, libraries, etc. I plan to use. I always want the customer to be prepared to replace me if necessary. I think it builds better good will and trust when they conceptually understand the work involved and know that we will help them move to another firm if necessary.

Some projects fail and some succeed but it rarely has anything to do with money in my experience.

[quote=338149:@Phillip Zedalis]We don’t charge by the hour because hourly tracking sucks.

We factor value added to project/business and how many days I expect to be working on it and charge a daily or weekly rate. [/quote]
This is “value added billing”
How do you determine what that “value added amount” is ?
How do your clients determine what that “value added amount” is ?
(I’m expecting Susan will jump in here at some point)

I’ve been billed this way by accountants and NEVER found that their explanation of how they arrive at “the value we added” made any sense
Never billed this way either because it is a very difficult thing to get to - cant imagine how anyone would have done this for Y2K work where it was “spend lots of money getting to do the exact same thing you have today just it wont crash - we think”

“Time & materials” is just fairly straight forward to explain - but then you have time tracking issues

Well I think your Y2K example of “spend lots of money getting to do the exact same thing you have today just it wont crash - we think” is probably not a good fit for value adding billing.

We don’t take on projects where we are just “code monkeys” or contractors. I am not interested in building a web page for the 99th time. I like to get in early and help the customer identify market fit, build a beautiful user interface, and basically develop the business. That’s the difference between consulting and contracting.

Value add is very easy to identify in consulting. Company A currently has 1mil in revenue. They expect software to bring 50% more revenue over course of next 24 months. Development is expected to take 6 months. That means the value to the customer is 500k - development costs. There is a lot more to capture there then just time and materials. However to do that you have to have a track record of building products from idea phase to revenue.