Does the XOJO support android develop ? and is there has thus Plan ? TKS!
in the key of Disney
It’s the circle of topics.
Why does this question comes up, time after time? I think there is a clear answer; Xojo does not support Android (regretfully) and will NEVER support Android (which is even more regretfully).
Case closed.
I want to apologize for sounding so harsh above, but it is what it is and NO Android for Xojo is the reality. Together with you, I wish it would be different. Nevetheless, your original question is valid and you are free to ask.
I am convinced Geoff understands that Xojo cannot for years ignore the top OS all devices combined without damage to Xojo. Just like they could not ignore iOS either.
iOS has some like 25 times more users than OS X, and the ratio is at least 5 or 6 when it comes to Windows.
Problem is, Android is the proverbial horse of a different color. Under the hood, it is nothing like OS X (which iOS is derived from), Linux or Windows. It is a much tougher nut to crack for Xojo engineers. My only hope is that they at least started some exploration.
While I love Xojo, one cannot hold breath to death until something comes up. B4A works for me at this moment.
plus Xojo can never properly support Android until they are able to properly support iOS (which in my opinion they are light-years away from doing [keyword : properly]). Not only that but Android comes in so many “flavors”, and custom versions based on what a device manufacturer desires… it would be a “moving target”
iOS is in many ways a path already traveled for Xojo. Same kind of framework, similar technology. The fact that they invented that new framework probably plays a major role in the slow growth of the thing, as most of what was done for OS X has to be revamped “new stuff”. Also probably the fact that 64 bits and HiDPI gulped the little engineer resources available. Don’t get me started on the total absence of specific hardware support : I feel it is a deliberate decision not to implement.
Android is not that of a moving target. The Java framework is pretty stable, and apps designed years ago still execute fine under the latest system. It is a fragmented environment, where supporting all screen sizes is part of the challenge each programmer faces. But overall, Android is somewhat not unlike Windows : legacy compatibility is real. Now, will Xojo ever realize that their very future depends on the ability to serve the ever growing mobile world, while the desktop world is stable at best ?
The Android NDK uses now LLVM for about a year or so. This means the compiler would be the same. The language would now be C/C++ internally and not Java. Since API level 9 an entire app can be written in C/C++. There is no need to use Java anymore at all.
I think that developers who make a living from developing with Xojo fall into three categories: company in-house programmers, desktop app developers for specialized business needs, and mobile app developers. I bet that the ones willing to pay a decent price for their development tool as we all do for Xojo are the first two, because they can with some certainty predict their income over the next few months or years. This is not possible in the mobile app world. You have not only to be good, but also to be very lucky to make a decent living from mobile apps.
Android is something we are very interested in supporting and are looking at supporting it in the future.
As many of you know, XDC is coming up in just a month and we usually make product announcements/roadmap plans available then, so attend, follow us on Twitter or watch the forum!
Dave
I know Xojo’s iOS implementation is bare bones, but when you say “properly” support iOS what do you mean?
I’m just curious as to what you mean by that … I don’t do mobile. Most of the stuff I write is for desktop for use at work on Macs and Windows machines.
- Karen
to me, “proper” support means the use of “declares” would be the exception not the rule, that all controls in the UIKit were implemented as standard controls within “Xojo for iOS”, and that all the major properties of those controls would be exposed to the developer.
I saw a posting here the other day where it took 3 declares just to set the background color of a control, to me that is not “proper”
I agree that the core of the corporate business is still and probably for years to come massively desktop. But in order to survive in a fast evolving technical environment, neither Xojo nor application developers can rest on their laurels.
I could be wrong, but as mobile evolve, they will soon be considered by customers as natural as desktop. Already, countless corporations complete their applications with mobile solutions, and request from their contractors iOS and Android applications. Those who can deliver find there some added opportunities. Those who cannot will simply miss the bus.
Just try to create anything in Xojo iOS. No matter how simple it is, you will very soon realize it is nothing like what you have used for years. Most events are not even there, the simplest of properties either (like background color as Dave described).
I just think Xojo inc, regretfully does not has the human resources to support IOS properly and support Android at all.
But even with the limited support for IOS and the lack of support for Android, Xojo is still an excellent developing tool. I do not see desktop going away, but I join Michel in his opinion that in the near future, desktop and mobile goes hand in hand.
The idea does not leave me, when this laptop is no longer usefull, I will buy a Macbook mainly to develop for IOS and because it is easy to develop for multi platforms. IOS, Ipad, Iphone, iTunes, are very succesfull and wanted in the world.
I cannot see in the future, I do not have a crystal ball but I like to make a (loose, wild) prediction that within a few years, Apple takes over the position Microsoft was in for decades with their PC’s. Microsoft missed the mobile boat and is now lagging behind.
Xojo will develop together with the mobile market. It will take some time, nonetheless our favourite development tool will be improved.
In the meantime, we have to be creative and resourcefull.
Chris
Who remembers that REALbasic 1.0 had Java support ?
It’s not realistic to walk in front for all platforms existing.
Xojo is advantageous on OSX, Windows, Linux and Linux-ARM. I would prefer focus to desktop platforms which would be a realistic scope given the available resources.
Mobile market will be huge, but it’s a done deal.
For long periods of time there will be enough market for all kind of desktop products, like business and server applications.
I agree with you Joost, it doesn’t seem realistic to support and develop for all platforms.
What does seem to be common is that most applications are moving to the Web. This allows almost any application, including graphics intensive programs, to be served from Xojo Web to almost every other OS. I think that almost every OS (even the niche OS’s) have some form of internet browser that is able to view and run web pages that are created by Xojo.
Programming for the web is likely the future. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong with this assumption.
Oh, I forgot to mention web, which is promising. I have build one which runs perfect on my Android tablet and since connectivity is not a big deal anymore, why not ? But I believe this technique is limited when it comes to lots of concurrent users.
Since the onset of the iPhone, the web possibility has always been here.
The Web has very real limitations that native apps don’t have. Xojo Web is very nice as a desktop emulation, but anyone who has attempted porting a moderately complex project soon realized how limited it can be, not only by the medium itself which prevents speed, but also by Xojo Web itself. WebListBox is nothing like the desktop grid, and many a time Xojo Web has been singled out for the poverty of its controls as compared to other web tools.
The core of the issue is that Xojo Web is server side, which prevents the kind of fast applications Eugene describes. In order to attain some performances, one has to use other tools, namely JavaScript. Most Xojo Web users tend to Javascript as snippets like one would do declares in Desktop. But it is a completely different undertaking to create an entire module, say to display fast graphics or sprite-like games.
Sure, Desktop is here for a long time to come, and most of us can probably look forward for several years of profitable developments for it. Perhaps a decade. However, Xojo itself cannot survive on slowing down platform.
It is already a miracle that Mac has not regressed yet. Desktop PC is clearly on its way down. Laptop PCs have a hard time facing ever more powerful convertible tablets.
I strongly believe that yes, Xojo can survive for another decade on what it has so far. But we know the end will come if they don’t do what it takes to embrace mobile, which already represents the vast majority of devices.
What i read in this is that Xojo Web needs to extend it architecture to support much more code/logic on the client… And that sounds like it really needs an architecture which includes a xojo to Javascript translator.
As mentioned previously, that seems highly unlikely to occur. Even if they are considering it, it would likely be at least 3-4 years from when they start such a project to when it would be usable… and other solutions would likely be very entrenched by then .
Also it is even less likely that they could tackle such a project AND make iOS support decent AND create good Android support.
We would all like Xojo to be able to do all things and do them well … but it’s not realistic.
Xojo is not Microsoft nor Apple (And I would not want either of them to acquire it!!!).
So what do they concentrate on given where they are and how the market is evolving?
It seems to me, besides modernizing desktop, they need to either concentrate on mobile or web… I don’t think they can realistically do both well enough.
- Karen