Xojo 2012 r2 shortcomings and annoyances

Hello everyone,

When Xojo was released early June, I stopped working in RealStudio immediatelly and I resisted the temptation to use it again. Now after almost six weeks using it, I am happy I made that decision, despite its shortcommings and annoyances. There where moments, I could throw Xojo out of the door, especially with release r1. But overall, the transition was smoothly for me.

I have to admit, I should read more in the programming with Xojo book which can be found under the “Help” menu, but like many people here, my time is very limited. Nevertheless, there is already a lot of information here on the forum. And when used to RealStudio, it is not that difficult.

For your information, I am using Xojo 2013 r2 Professional on a Fujitsu-Siemens Esprimo Mobile D9510 laptop, which is a Core2Duo running at 2,4Ghz with 4GB of RAM and an Intel SSD. I am using Windows 7 Professional 64bit.

There are however still some shortcomings which should be addressed.

  1. Typing in the code editor :
    This is one of my greatest annoyances. I type blind at a speed around 360 characters per minute. The editor cannot keep up with my speed. It is slow, very slow. Sometimes characters are missing (it is not an typing error). When I reduce my speed, everything is perfect.
    Another problem is the repetition of characters. When deleting unwanted characters by pressing and holding the “backspace” key, the cursor just stops after a few characters. However the arrow keys work as expected, so this is a very good workaround for this problem.

  2. Auto complete in the code editor :
    This is still not working as it should. When already typed the command or property completely, it still gives in grey the same property of command which is very unclear and invite for errors

  3. The navigator :
    In my opinion the behaviour of the navigator needs a complete re-design. When creating a folder it is very difficult to unselect objects, with the undesired result, when immediatelly creating a second folder, it is within the former folder. Also creating new objects in the navigator is a pain, it rarely appears in the correct place. This is not a bug but is a result of the problem mentioned before.

  4. At startup a lot of flickering in Windows :
    When starting up Xojo, there is a lot of flickering on the standard window. The window appears and disappears several times again.

  5. I do not know if this is a bug or not. But when I do in RealStudio the following :
    For i = 0 To Ubound(clssSomeClassArray)

this works without any problem. When I do the same in Xojo, the value of “i” remains “0”

In Xojo I have to do the following :
intArrayIndex = Ubound(clssSomeClassArray)
For i = 0 To intArrayIndex

which works perfectly. Anyway I prefer the Xojo way which is probably a faster way.

For me Xojo receive 8/10. At this laptop, a Fujitsu-Siemens D9510 with Intel Core2Duo running at 2,4Ghz with 4GB of RAM and Intel 240 GB SSD with Windows 7 Professional 64 bit, Xojo is stable. I did not had a single crash during the six weeks I am using it now. I still have to explore many ereas.

Putting everything closer together in the navigator was a very good decision, especially for people using a 15,4 inch laptop. Flickering in the navigator is much less.

For now I am looking forward when the LLVM compiler is implemented. I expect much of that transition. But we have to wait until it is ready and finished. But like with Xojo, I am sure it will be worth the wait.

Hope this information is of some use. Xojo is a great development tool with a bright future when LLVM is added, IOS/Android support is also added.

Wish you all a very nice day and very much Xojo development pleasure.

Friendly greetings,

Bad_Wolf
acra-endeavours

I type blind at a speed around 360 characters per minute.

Are you sure your keyboard can keep up? 6 characters per second is impressive. I don’t think I can think in code that fast … :wink:

360 CPS is only 72 WPM, many can easily type > 100 WPM, I can hit 90 WPM. Not coding at at a consistent 90 WPM, but for sure short spurts of words I type frequently I can do in a code editor ~90 WPM no problem. When using Xojo on Windows, those words I type frequently are always the ones that get mangled.

BTW… The keyboard can easily keep up with those speeds.

[quote=23174:@Bad Wolf]5. I do not know if this is a bug or not. But when I do in RealStudio the following :
For i = 0 To Ubound(clssSomeClassArray)

this works without any problem. When I do the same in Xojo, the value of “i” remains “0”

In Xojo I have to do the following :
intArrayIndex = Ubound(clssSomeClassArray)
For i = 0 To intArrayIndex

which works perfectly. Anyway I prefer the Xojo way which is probably a faster way.[/quote]
It is much faster, the less you do in a loop the quicker it will run, putting ubound in the for statement forces it to re-evaluate the array for each increment of the loop.

Hello Markus, Jeremy and Sam,

Thank you all for your reply which I appreciate very much.

When I learned typing blind in 1990, I already got a speed between 200 and 250 characters per minute at the end of the coarse. All those years I typed blind so my speed and typing only improved.

I have to agree with Jeremy about the Xojo editor. The editor cannot keep up and mangles characters. A keyboard can indeed easily keep up with that speed. There is something wrong with the editor. In my opinion it is not made for people typing blind. When typing with two fingers, there is no problem. The problem arrise when typing at high speeds.

Indeed, exactly what I thought about placing statements in a loop. I also find the Xojo way much cleaner.

I hope Xojo Inc will correct these things, especially the code editor in the next release. This is really something no software producer wants to be present in its software.

Wish you all a very nice day.

Friendly greetings,

Bad_Wolf
acra-endeavours

If I see it I’ll believe it but tight now I don’t because I can say without a doubt there is code in the IDE that uses the

  for i = 0 to ubound(array)

style and works as it always has
Call me doubtful on this one

The keyboard issue (especially the Backspace) is still an issue, but I’ve learned to set my keyboard ‘repeat’ rate within the Control Panel accordingly to where it cooperates with Xojo for now. And the ubound issue, I’m with Norman. Has always been solid as a rock with me! Could you be more specific in your code as to what clssSomeClassArray is assigned as so that it may be attempted to be replicated?

Have you tried the “property” version of UBOUND instead of the “function” version that you are using now?

For I=0 to array.ubound

instead of

For i=0 to Ubound(Array)

Took me a while to transition from one format to the other… but now I find the first method more appealing…

not saying it will or will not work in the situation you are describing… just an idea.

When deleting unwanted characters by pressing and holding the “backspace” key

This is one of Windows User typical default !

Use ctrl-shift-left arrow to select the offending text, the the Delete or Space key…

For now I am looking forward when the LLVM compiler is implemented. I expect much of that transition.
But we have to wait until it is ready and finished.
I am 60 y/o: my experience is: “no time to wait” + “new technology is welcome, but I will await nothing from it until version 4”, “transition is not for me, I undergo the transition”.
I try to avoid deceipts, but this does not works as expected.

Also: unannounced technologies released in the “last version” (to that date, not in xojo, but in the past) can be fantastic, the most surprinsing piece of code ever saw… but most of the times gaves me nothing; I do not have the use of it. As an example I can tell: RegEx (but other exists).
Don’t get me wrong; RegEx is fantastic, but I do not found an use for it (in my projects).
I never even tried WEB (nor in RS nor in XOJO).

Hardware transition: I recall my first Apple //c with 800KB discs… it worked fine, fast, etc. If I compare it to my 2011-11 MBP 15", there are improvements, but it is not so fast (comparing to the older Apple computer). This is not something to do (compare Apple //c to MacBook Pro), but, taking into account only the usage I have, even if they changed, the comparison have senses: the speed increase is not 2.2GHz vs 1MHz… (the CPU speed). Of course 128KB vs 4GB also cannot be compared, but I never was near memory missing with my good old 128KB computer (vs the actual one where 4GB is a bit short; often not enough).

And if I made a OS comparison, current one is not so better than ProDOS was so many years ago: I never saw any bugs then (vs so many bugs I saw with 10.3 thru 10.8 !).

At last: yes, I do / create far better things now than then: I too have evolved. But having 4 cores in a CPU and having to wait seconds before an open/save dialog opens (more seconds if you have more connected hard disks / peripherals) is trully a shame. My deep feeling is that only one core is used at a time and this will continue for some more years.

Marketing bullshit; I know what I am talking about because I said (wrote) these too, long time ago !

That said, we have to live with what we can have: hardware / software.