XDevLibrary- Not Happy!

So having got the email letter this morning I wandered over the library and found something I was interested in and popped it the basket. I selected to PayPal and expected to go through the normal process, only to be prompted with this:

[quote]I hereby authorize Gumroad Inc to charge my PayPal account for any amounts owed now and in the future on a one-time, regular or recurring basis.
I instruct PayPal to pay all amounts on the basis of the User Agreement.[/quote]

At this point I decided not to go ahead. There is simple no way that I’m going to authorise some third company in this way, especially for a few dollars.

Does anyone know if that’s how it is for any Gumroad purchase?

Oh. I was gonna buy that latest book on graphics programming during the Cyber Monday sale. But I won’t accept those terms either. Clarification anyone?

Visibly, Gumroad does as some vendors do. Instead of having a one time sale, they try to get you into signing for a contract with them. FastSpring and other do the same.

Just go through their BS, wait for the transaction to be effective and you got your download, then log on Paypal and go to
my Profile
my Money
My preApproved Payments - > Update
Click on GumRoad, and click “Cancel”

I believe this is bad business, and XDev should consider another payment processing, though.

You should have continued the buying process as i did a few weeks ago, total fun: i got 3 times the PAY-button and had to click it to get further in the paying routine, it was each time the same button and the layout of the whole payprocess was hilariously amateuristic.
Because of my adventurish nature :wink: i continued to the bitter end and all went well. I took the chance because i knew the risc of paying via paypal is reasonably small, but i have never seen such badly designed payprocess.

Yes, Michel, you are correct that other sites do this as well. I don’t deal with them. Unfortunately, that will be my approach to the purchase I was anticipating. Whoever controls this process from RBLib (Marc Zeeder?), if you will offer another way to pay where I can just pay for what I want and not enter into a contract, I have other books I am interested in.

This sounds like standard terms. Just continue.

[quote=299790:@Michel Bujardet]Just go through their BS, wait for the transaction to be effective and you got your download, then log on Paypal and go to [snip]
I believe this is bad business, and XDev should consider another payment processing, though.[/quote]
The only way to really tell a business you don’t like what they’re doing is to not buy from them. I won’t jump through hoops for Gumroad. I might for select people who I have personal contact with, but no thanks, Gumroad.

I disagree. You don’t go shopping at the mall and allow any merchant to just make any kind of charge against your card. You hand them the card each transaction.

I think there are a number of payment processing out there who simply don’t understand business. Since they do subscriptions, they treat single shot transaction the same way.

Marc probably went with Gumroad precisely because they handle his subscriptions.

He should probably handle Paypal himself. Paypal does subscriptions, just as well as one shot sales. And am sure he would get a better deal than going through Gumroad, which I am sure take a share along the way. So not only do they cost, but they fock up.

No it is definitely not. And if you don’t know the difference I’d suggest you check your PayPal account carefully you may be surprised what automatic payment agreements have been set up this way. Many people only notice it when a big payment goes through.

[quote=299790:@Michel Bujardet]Visibly, Gumroad does as some vendors do. Instead of having a one time sale, they try to get you into signing for a contract with them. FastSpring and other do the same.

Just go through their BS, wait for the transaction to be effective and you got your download, then log on Paypal and go to
my Profile
my Money
My preApproved Payments - > Update
Click on GumRoad, and click “Cancel”

I believe this is bad business, and XDev should consider another payment processing, though.[/quote]

Thank you Michel, I know how to cancel them. In fact I have a diary entry every three months to review them.

I will check with Gumroad, but I’m 99% sure this is just boilerplate to handle possible subscription purchases. In no way does it mean that Gumroad will randomly charge you, do an ongoing charge, or something like that (unless you really are buying a subscription). It’s quite possible that this is something Paypal insisted upon (i.e. it’s how Paypal works if possible subscriptions are involved).

I haven’t yet used Gumroad for subscriptions; I use them because they handle instant digital delivery and their payment process (at least in the past) was very simple. They also do updates to products really well.

If anyone has concerns about this, feel free to contact me off-forum or via direct message. I can make arrangements for an alternate pay method if you want.

The store for XDev Magazine looks like it was last updated during 10.4 . Doesn’t inspire much confidence in the store.

Except there are no subscriptions involved.

[quote=299856:@Marc Zeedar]
I haven’t yet used Gumroad for subscriptions; I use them because they handle instant digital delivery and their payment process (at least in the past) was very simple. They also do updates to products really well.[/quote]

I also renewed by magazine subscription yesterday and it was processed via PayPal as expected. If in future it becomes a process like Gumroad, then I will not be renewing.

Marc, while I personally have no doubt that you are honest, I frankly don’t know Gumroad and don’t trust them. Paypal NEVER forces a vendor to use a subscription process for a one shot sale. I should know, I have been with them for 15 years. Instead of going through Gumroad, you really should consider using Paypal directly.

It is really not difficult to implement IPN, and to deliver downloads. Or ask Gumroad to use the instant purchase process.

Well, I just checked my account.
There is a pre approvement for a book selling company.
And that is no big problem. It just means I can shop on their book store, click on checkout Paypal and don’t need to enter my password. The transaction goes through directly. This is the same convenience as if you store the credit card with the shop for future orders.

In my experience, when in doubt, customers move on at the speed of light. The slightest hurdle and you lost the sale.

It is not as if we were still back in the nineties when online purchase was unusual. Today consumers are accustomed to pay, get the goods, and forget. Trying to force a different process on them is IMHO the best way to lose business.

I have no issues with behemoths such as Amazon, or the Apple Store, to leave them my credit card number so I can go through more easily. But yet, I buy very regularly from them.

XDevLibrary is not a weekly buy by any mean. Sure, it is a community resource, and as such, I would trust it. But not every prospect knows who Marc Zeedar is.

Which is why I included the word possible in my comment. I’m not sure, but I think Gumroad is just using the same processing wording if it’s a subscription or not. They’re sort of covering all their bases. I agree that’s not ideal, but I don’t believe it’s malicious.

There may some confusion over the definition of “subscription.” For Gumroad and Paypal, a subscription means a recurring payment, in that you are auto-charged when the subscription period ends and a new one starts. That’s why you see the Paypal notice about future charges – if it’s a subscription, Paypal needs to be able to auto-charge your renewal in the future. (Keep in mind many subscriptions of this type are monthly, not annual like xDev.)

At this time, xDev does not do any auto-charging. You pre-pay for your subscription and when it ends you’re sent a renewal notice, but if you don’t renew, you don’t get any new magazine issues. Some people like auto-renew as it’s more convenient, but some don’t like it as it’s taking you making the decision to renew or not out of your control.

Since xDev doesn’t auto-renew, you don’t see a message like the Paypal one on Gumroad.

Mark, several weeks ago I purchased @Eugene Dakin 's book on programming Raspberry Pi (an excellent book, by the way!). As a result, there was a pre-approved payment agreement with Gumroad in my Paypal profile. I deactivated it. The point is, it is clearly not just for subscriptions. It may not be what you want, but Gumroad does it nonetheless. This is the kind of invasive behavior that will drive your customers away. If it were my busness, I would have a chat with these guys.

Hi folks! I have just received an explanation about this matter from Gumroad and it sounds like it’s just Paypal’s poor wording that makes this confusing.

Here’s the word from Gumroad:

Does this sound better to everyone?

Since I know that some people might have been reluctant to place an order on Black Friday because of this, I will leave the CYBERMONDAY coupon active for an extra day (today, Tuesday, November 29th) so you can still save 20% on xDevLibrary today.