xDev Magazine January/February 2015 - what do you think?

That has more to do with Windows developers writing less articles. I mentioned that I would love to see a Windows and Linux corner in xDev … feeling up to it? :wink:

Takes 10 seconds to find the information in a textual content, half an hour to an hour sitting passively in front of a webinar. No offence for the brave souls who make them, I seldom have the patience to endure the mumble for that long.

The advantage in the webinar is that you can ask questions, and some are quite good. More drawings and schemata would help to see the big picture though (I remember one by a guest speaker which was REALLY good).

But webinars need an awful amount of preparation to do them well.

I usually download them and watch them on my iPad when I’m on the train …

Having to get up at 6 in the morning to be in front of the computer in Europe for the American 1 PM ET is not, literally, my cup of tea. I usually enjoy my breakfast at a more decent hour.

There goes the interactivity. But after all, on the train, it is probably time well spent :wink:

??? Where are you in Europe? I’m in Germany and the webinar is on at 7 pm.

So you get up at 6 to be reasonably awake at 7 in front of you screen :wink:

Pm! In the evening.

Are you a vampire?

[quote=165491:@Markus Winter]Pm! In the evening.

Are you a vampire?[/quote]

Yes. :)=

Brilliant smiley! :smiley:

In the summer it’s 6am for me, in the winter it’s 5am which is just too hard. Not sure how it can be am for me when I’m 12/13hrs away from UTC. Europe is what 1 - 3?

Never mind. Got mixed up in time differences. Sorry.

[quote=165461:@Michel Bujardet]I was a strong proponent of having Android, based on the huge market share of that system, until I stummbled upon this
http://readwrite.com/2014/01/08/app-store-sales-google-play-android
and that http://venturebeat.com/2013/07/17/comparing-apples-and-googles-the-app-store-vs-google-play-infographic/

It appears iOS apps are still making five times more than Android’s. Just like the Windows Store is dismally small as compared to the MAS.[/quote]

I love all these statistical informations. There are always a way to gather the informations and display it to ones favour. :slight_smile:

I am not saying the informations is wrong, but sometimes I find it better we try to use our common sense instead of fall into these traps.

I really think it depends of what kind of market you are approaching.

Let say we have two companies that make almost the same product. Company A and Company B.

Company A provide a product that can be used for: Mac, Windows, Linux, Ipad and Iphones

Company B provide a similar product as Company A that can be used for: Mac, Windows, Linux, Ipad, Iphones and Android.

Which one do you think most companies will buy ?

[quote=165717:@John Hansen]I love all these statistical informations. There are always a way to gather the informations and display it to ones favour. :slight_smile:

I am not saying the informations is wrong, but sometimes I find it better we try to use our common sense instead of fall into these traps.

I really think it depends of what kind of market you are approaching.

Let say we have two companies that make almost the same product. Company A and Company B.

Company A provide a product that can be used for: Mac, Windows, Linux, Ipad and Iphones

Company B provide a similar product as Company A that can be used for: Mac, Windows, Linux, Ipad, Iphones and Android.

Which one do you think most companies will buy ?[/quote]

Sorry, that logic is flawed.

Given the same resources Company A produces an outstanding iOS app, while Company B produces iOS and Android apps with less features.

Company A makes large profits, Company B … not.

Company A reinvests profits to improve iOS product, Company B decides to concentrate on Android.

Company A continues to make profit, Company B …?

If you are a developer and you have to feed your family then you have to ask yourself “where is the money”. Every developer I read from said that for a variety of reasons (piracy, cracked apps, unwillingness to pay, incompatibilities between phones and systems so the app may or may not run) income from Android is far less than from their iOS version despite larger market share. But at the same time it costs them much more to produce the Android app.

If your logic were correct then Xojo would fight with Java and other cross-platform languages for the #1 spot.

But you should really start a new thread for that.

P.S. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see a Xojo for Android. I just don’t think there is a strong economic case for it.

[quote=165717:@John Hansen]I love all these statistical informations. There are always a way to gather the informations and display it to ones favour. :slight_smile:

I am not saying the informations is wrong, but sometimes I find it better we try to use our common sense instead of fall into these traps.[/quote]

Actually, that’s exactly what you are saying. You are ignoring data because they don’t conform with your wishes. Not a good way to make decisions.

In an ideal World I can run everything on anything, and everything is free. But this isn’t an ideal World. People have to eat. Drink. Sleep. Cloth themselves. Provide for others.

Starting from that base you have to make an economic case.

I give you a real World example of what happens when you do NOT make an economic case.

Famine in Africa because fields did not produce enough. US and Europe delivered food aid but insisted it was to be given out for free. Consequence was that local farmers could not sell their produce and went bancrupt. Following year famine was even worse because the remaining farmers produced even less.

ONE African country (forgot which one it was) refused and charged low market prices for the food. Farmers survived. No famine in THAT country in the following year.

[quote=165717:@John Hansen]I love all these statistical informations. There are always a way to gather the informations and display it to ones favour. :slight_smile:

I am not saying the informations is wrong, but sometimes I find it better we try to use our common sense instead of fall into these traps.

I really think it depends of what kind of market you are approaching.

Let say we have two companies that make almost the same product. Company A and Company B.

Company A provide a product that can be used for: Mac, Windows, Linux, Ipad and Iphones

Company B provide a similar product as Company A that can be used for: Mac, Windows, Linux, Ipad, Iphones and Android.

Which one do you think most companies will buy ?[/quote]

As you say, it is a question of perspective. My point was to talk about online stores, from my perspective of indie developer of general public software (mostly).

Forgive me, but I tend to look at things from a not so elegant but pragmatic cash register perspective. If I spend an hour developing for the MAS, I sell 20 times more than the Windows Store for the same title. If statistics are even half true, chances are I will get at least twice the return from the iOS App Store as from the Android Play Store. If not five times as the statistics seem to indicate.

If you are serving a corporation with custom development, it becomes a whole different ball game, since customer being king, if payer wants Android or Windows Phone, you simply must deliver. Truth be told, B4A is not that bad, and VS’s VB is usable.

Incidentally, I do support 11151 feature request for Android support which is now second, and should be high on Xojo’s radar. Since the first, 64 bit, is already happening, we probably already have the ear of the powers that be.

I have no idea how strategic Android support can be for Xojo, but I suspect the amount of work involved is far from trivial. Especially when the competing B4A has for it years of evolution, and it seems pretty futile to release in comparison such a limited product as current Xojo iOS.

Before jumping into Android, I think Xojo are to complete iOS with a full compliment of controls, and full support of iOS devices specificities, like accelerometers (Motion detectors), Location, GPS, phone, rings, audio input, connectivity detection, libraries, background execution, plus much needed bread makers such as in-app purchase and iAD. Even with the talent of Xojo engineers, I don’t see that happening before next year. Then, maybe, Android could make sense.

[quote=165719:@Markus Winter]Sorry, that logic is flawed.

Given the same resources Company A produces an outstanding iOS app, while Company B produces iOS and Android apps with less features.

Company A makes large profits, Company B … not.

Company A reinvests profits to improve iOS product, Company B decides to concentrate on Android.

Company A continues to make profit, Company B …?

If you are a developer and you have to feed your family then you have to ask yourself “where is the money”. Every developer I read from said that for a variety of reasons (piracy, cracked apps, unwillingness to pay, incompatibilities between phones and systems so the app may or may not run) income from Android is far less than from their iOS version despite larger market share. But at the same time it costs them much more to produce the Android app.

If your logic were correct then Xojo would fight with Java and other cross-platform languages for the #1 spot.

But you should really start a new thread for that.[/quote]

I guess in some areas you might face that kind of challenge. Then again as I said: “I really think it depends of what kind of market you are approaching”

  1. Some provide services similar to DropBox. More client platforms you can support more interest you get to use their services
  2. Some provide a server application (server application not made by Xojo, only the client part) like (Helpdesk, Monitoring tools, etc…) In that area it is also important you can support ios and Android client

I am not Seeing Xojo as one tool for all kind of applications. If you are a developer and only has one tool Xojo in your portfolio. Yes you are right, then you would be very vulnerable.

[quote=165717:@John Hansen]
Let say we have two companies that make almost the same product. Company A and Company B.

Company A provide a product that can be used for: Mac, Windows, Linux, Ipad and Iphones

Company B provide a similar product as Company A that can be used for: Mac, Windows, Linux, Ipad, Iphones and Android.

Which one do you think most companies will buy ?[/quote]

The one that supports what they want/need to do

For anyone USING Xojo it has to be something they justify based on what market they are after, the effort required to support it etc.
Same as “Do I provide a Windows / Linux / OS X / iOS / Web version of my software ?”
Android would be one more thing to consider.

For us I don’t think there’s any doubt that at some point we will do “something”
Whats not clear is :

  1. what base version of Android it would support (4.x and up only as that seems to be about 90+% of Android use according to Play
  2. how we’d do what we need to (code obfuscation? native code? how to build the framework?)
  3. timelines
    There’s a lot of things required to make this happen.