Yeah, I was referring only to desktop.
I have upgraded from 2018r3 to 2021r3.1 for Desktop, and most projects have been developed from new or going through any exceptions for language changes. For Desktop the changes have been quite positive.
For web - I’m still in limbo on whether to fork out the cash for a new license as Web 2.0 is quite different and so many people on the forum are reporting issues. I develop on Linux though so the 2018 IDE has some control sizing issues on Linux whereas the 2021 doesn’t, making it easier to use for development.
As someone new here reading this, he does have a good argument, which is a bit concerning. They advertise some advantages as being easier than PHP or other languages, as you can upgrade your web app at any time. I don’t see how it’s that different as having to rely on dependencies like JS libraries, CSS or Python/Perl/PHP versions if new releases of Xojo are going to break migrations.
I completely understand the API 2 is new, but he does have a valid point either way. The reason people use other web technologies is that there is no upgrade break path, major new versions are released in steps and usually require little to no changes to the existing code. It would completely destroy a programming language and its users base if there was no upgrade path, just like with anything else.
Example, a framework like CodeIgniter on their new version lost most of its users because there is no upgrade path either and requires a full rewrite of the applications.
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Ok. I “accept” this argument.
But why not make this transition smooth? Things like “Control arrays missing” it’s a pain! I’ll need to “guess” where all my controls will be to create and move them in code. And to make matters worse, it’s not wysiwyg!!! The size of previous objects changed on new version!
And about no more style editor?… Everything i did on past, size, color, lines, etc, etc, i lost going to the last version! This is not clever, at all.
It WOULD be absolutly necessary to have a transition.
OMG?!?!
I know CSS, but I understand people’s frustration as Xojo is aimed to non coders or fast prototyping apps. Makes little sense if you have to code everything by hand. While some code might be required with every software aimed to non programmers, I don’t agree with styling. It’s not that hard to let users click and select colors and styles, which then can create automatically the proper bootstrap theme and code. Maybe it’s coming in the future.
Maybe this helps:
Builder – Bootstrap Build
The old “Always in BETA” feeling. You get a couple things fixed, but if you move you loose compatibility with something they broke or abandon 
And WHEN an upgrade breaks all the backwards compatibility, almost all other tools offer actual support and maintenance for some years to the deprecated technology instead of just leave there dead in the wather with no more bug fixes, nor languaje/IDE improvements.
Well, according to Xojo, they know better and this is what you want 
With so many different browsers real Web WYSIWYG is not possible. Xojo Web 2.0 comes close or as close as possible.
Every browser has the same standards now when it comes to CSS, HTML5 and JavaScript. There are actually only 2 major browser rendering engines left, Gecko for Firefox and Chromium which every other browser is using, including MS Edge, Vivaldi, Opera, Brave (name your flavor…). I don’t mention Safari because that is WebKit and basically Chromium comes from WebKit. Ironically, Safari is now the underdog when it comes to web standards, as Apple is afraid future web technologies could be used to bypass the app store by developers not willing to give them a 30% cut of their sales.
Said that, as long as you target the lowest denominator, Safari, it will also work in every other browser.
It’s absolutely possible to have a visual editor with click and point buttons that when executed generates code for all major browsers. Not rocket science. The question is if this is the approach Xojo is going for. If they are going with the let’s just code everything approach, then there are gazillion IDE code editors available, even free which are the norm like Visual Studio Code. A professional developer uses a code IDE anyway, me included. My interest in Xojo is more mobile and desktop, being able to target all platforms with the same code. Web is not that important for me today, but it would still be nice having the option to quickly generate web stuff using the same code for other platforms. As long as you can always still manually edit the code.
At least, from my impression reading here, most people pick Xojo because they are not developers or do software as their main job. But if the API 2.0 has new features, it’s understandable they are still building functions on top, and they plan to make it easier in the future.
Just guessing, but at least it seems in my impression, their marketing approach is targeting all platforms for non developers. It means the web part which is not currently a top priority (and I completely understand why) is still underdeveloped and older features are yet not ready. I suspect most features will come at some point that makes web development easier again. For now, being able to code is better than not having the option at all.
You are joking, right?
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There are lots of us here where development is our main job
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Sorry, I was not trying to offend anyone, I was just trying to pinpoint how Xojo is marketing the software, including on their website and the videos I watched on YouTube. I’m sure there are plenty of people that do software for a living and use Xojo. Why not? You can code with notepad if you want. I don’t have any preference for anything and in my opinion people should use what works for them. There is no wrong or right approach as long as the end results works and is what you expect. Personally, I use several text editors for basic changes, plus more fancy IDE’s from JetBrains when I need more intensive coding.
What I was trying to say is that Xojo is supposed to solve two basic problems, at least from my impression. It allows you to start quickly for simple, basic stuff and target all platforms. In the end, I’m 100% aware that coding is required regardless of what you are using. It doesn’t matter if someone is using MS Access, for more fancy stuff they will need to code at some point. This is true for any software that is targeted to creating apps, there is no magic solution.
You could also use Java or just C and target all platforms, but there is a reason why some decided to go with Xojo, I assume because they are not interested in learning for months a new coding language just create a simple app that has 3 buttons. I’m sure Xojo helps in that regard, but is also able to create very complex software depending on the work and time someone is willing to invest.
From a marketing perspective you are correct. Most of us don’t agree with the marketing.
Xojo makes decent apps in a good amount of time. You can get the bells and whistles but only with a real effort. But you don’t end up with those embarrassing Electron apps where even opening something trivial takes seconds (Evernote!).
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Can you provide the opposite example ?
(an application that runs at the speed of light ?)
And that is not 6 years old…
I think you can blame that on the App and not on the tool.
VS Code is electron app and its hard to say that one is slow or bad.
Basically same as you can see very bad apps made with Xojo and you can see good apps made with Xojo.
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Or in my case, was my main job.
I agree, Visual Studio Code is made with Electron (very, very popular), so are some GitHub apps and one of the notes apps I love Joplin…plenty of them, actually running Electron. They do have a similar trend, they use tons of RAM, but they work fine. It all depends on the app and the developer, I guess. They are just tools, you can create horrible performing stuff or amazing ones.
Totally agree.
2.0 killed all development I did since 2016
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I have at least one example where this is the exact opposite. WebButtons not working anywhere (and making the app hanging), but on Safari. See <https://xojo.com/issue/65628>.
i’m about a year now migrating a webproject from version 2018 to 2021…
now, it’s 2022 version… and i don’t know if i keep migrating to 2021 or continue with 2022!!
i’m very sad with xojo.
2022r1 is closer to 2021.x.
On top of that it is written everywhere on the forum that migrating a Web 1.0 app is a complex and long exercise. It’s better to recreate you app from the ground up. Did you pick the recreation route ?
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