When to upgrade to 10.13 High Sierra?

I’m still running 10.12.6 on my main MacBook Pro development machine. At some point I know I’ll have to upgrade to 10.13, but I have no wish to be an early adopter - with past releases I’ve usually waited until the .4 or .5 release to upgrade.

I see that the latest Xcode (9.3) update won’t run on 10.12. Is it time?

Any advice? Are you happy with 10.13, and specifically 10.13.4?

I am still on 10.12 and Xcode 9.2
HS is about to go to 10.13.4 (a few days I’d guess)

But personally I’ve heard rumblings of various things not working right (or at all), and something makes me thing a few of those were Xojo related???

[quote=380727:@Dave S]I am still on 10.12 and Xcode 9.2
HS is about to go to 10.13.4 (a few days I’d guess)

But personally I’ve heard rumblings of various things not working right (or at all), and something makes me thing a few of those were Xojo related???[/quote]
10.13.4 was released last Thursday.

When they ship 10.13.6.

:slight_smile: I knew there is a 4 in an upcoming release… it is iOS 11.4

I upgraded to 10.13.4 just this weekend and so far everything works fine except ThinDotted listbox gridlines are not visible, which unfortunately has destroyed the appearance of important features (such as line items on an invoice).

Xojo running in 10.13.2 looks fine, so this was something that was changed in the newer version.

I was going to say when they ship 10.14.

Personally at this rate I will probably skip HS on my production machine. Apart from Metal 2, there is no other reason (for me) to upgrade.

I’ll end up upgrading when Apple release a MacBook Pro.

I have to maintain several different build machines with several different versions of MacOS and Xcode, due to legacy code bases.

While I haven’t moved my main development over to 10.13.x High Sierra, it’s critically important to do extensive testing on that OS because of Apple’s move to APFS (the new Apple File System). A few critical file operations that used to work on El Capitan and Sierra will NEVER work on High Sierra – ever.

But you’re correct – to use the latest Xcode, you may need to move to High Sierra.

Usually, by the .4 release Apple has most of the bugs under control. .0 through .3 are usually best to avoid.

only upgrade when you need to , that is when you have to use an app that needs the system you intend to install.
I’m still on 10.11.6 and so far I can still use internet …


never ever use the last .x update of an OS: it is in reality the 10.x -.1 version. (they usually put in the last .x technologies they will expand in the next major release: I had troubles with these in the past.)

I upgrade as soon as it comes out… :slight_smile:

And I do keep an old 10.11.6 for my Xojo 2016 projects. (via VMware) so thats how easy you can keep old projects.

I did upgrade to 10.13 and APFS much too early. I ended up chasing a bug that was not mine, but due to APFS, which took over 4 seconds to write 10K on an SSD, when it took less than 70 ms on a good old mechanical hard drive with HFS.

Now I am back with HFS, and don’t intend to go to APFS unless absolutely forced.

So far, 10.13.3 has not manifested major issues.

I don’t think for an end user software developer like me, it is quite prudent not to have the same version of the system as what currently sold machines have. The alternative being to have a pull of beta testers using High Sierra…

I probably go with 10.14 with my next hardware upgrade…

I skipped 10.13 so far.

Ironically I actually agree with your statement, but don’t do it. I am not a fast developer, it can take me a long time to develop an application and after the dog shite that was Yosemite, I became concerned about how much time I spend doing Apple’s Q/A for them rather than working on my apps. So I stopped beta testing the macOS at El Cap. I test my apps periodically and report bugs, but that’s about it.

I do have a second machine that I use for almost everything else than programming and that has two partitions, 1 Yosemite and 1 whatEverCrap we have this year. I try to use it with the latest OS, but when it gets too frustrating I go back to Yosemite.[quote=380764:@Helge Tjelta]I upgrade as soon as it comes out… :)[/quote]
I used to be like that, right since the days of System 7, many times I’ve been able to do serious work with beta OS versions. Just the last 3 OS releases have been utter tripe during the beta stage. I know that this isn’t reflective of everyone, I know I almost always seem to be going against the grain.

Note I have stopped beta testing macOS as well. I now install the new system when it becomes available to the public.

Which will be named 10.14 instead of.

10.13 is the worst OS update Apple has ever done as far as I’m concerned. The APFS is full of bugs and the speed is so bad that certain file actions are slower on the internal SSD in this machine than on an external USB2 spinning HFS+ drive which is inexcusable.(specifically the rename API that replaced the older swap files API. I can only do 10 or so rename/swaps a second where I could do hundreds of the old style ones on an HFS+ disk in the same time, this is using Christians excellent MBS plugin exchangeFiles command which does do the right thing under the hood, it’s apples fault not his.) And then there are the problems with the thread contention in drawing that will make any user space app you write hang up randomly after the screen goes to sleep. I believe that this bug is still present in 10.13.4. I only upgraded yesterday but I’m already seeing the same hiccups on my testing machine.

The answer is never, you should never upgrade to 10.13.anything. But if you don’t, and if you don’t report bugs and bug Apple about it then these same things will carry forward into 10.14 and forever. Also you should at least install on an external drive or in a VM for some testing. Your users WILL have random problems that you’ll need to find work arounds for.

I believe that something is newly broken in AppleScript as well, I’m having some users reporting hangs deep in Apple’s AppleEvent handling code after updating. Still looking into that one. High Sierra has kept me very busy I wish I could downgrade all my users machines. It’s horrid.

I preferred Sierra, but had no choice when I bought my new MBP. It works fine and I don’t notice any slowdowns, but I hate the tinkering with fundamental UI functions like the deprecation of Save As. Preview is one of my most-used apps and they’ve totally screwed it up. Another of my most-used apps, Circus Ponies Notebook, won’t work under High Sierra so I had to make a painful switch to Omni Outliner; I still have years and years of work in CPN so I’m hanging onto my old MBP for conversions. Spotlight refuses to index my Outlook messages after the migration so I’m going to have to do a complete reinstall of MS Office, which I’m dreading.

If all that you’re needing 10.13 support for is APFS, you can create the same basic environment in HFS+ by formatting with the Case Sensitive option selected. Unless your app is a user-space filesystem tool or deals with the extended attributes and ACL entries added to APFS specifically, you end up with the same environment

And the fact that any Apple tool automatically selects to save to the cloud. Just more converting the Mac user base to iOS.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - 10.4.11 was the best version of OS X that Apple ever produced. Stable, secure, fast, lightweight, lots of hardware support without headaches. I still keep a Quad Core G5 and a Mac Pro 4,2 in our lab running that level.

That’s truly the only way to determine if the user experience will be correct. On no fewer than 13 occasions since 10.3, Apple’s released version had changes that we did not see in the last beta release before GM became public. It happened a lot back in the OS X Server days.