Web App Hosts

No but you can purchase those from rackspace

[quote=86937:@Lee Page]
This middleware is it a bespoke Xojo delevoped from the ground up or just something that rackspace offer with VPS hosting services?[/quote]
Yes and it works together with the customized images your servers are created from

They’re not just repackaged Rackspace VPS’s

Norman, is there a public, up to date list of security features implemented by Xojo Cloud? It’s perfectly understandable if there isn’t for some particular reason. If there is, can you share a link?

[quote=87022:@Norman Palardy]So you’re complaint is “yeah but it doesn’t make toast yet and I really need toast and man when will it make toast ? I’m hungry I want toast !”

No, that’s not the complaint. How you guys frame the security stuff is the complaint. We all know there are actual trade-offs because we have to actually make them. You guys have been a bit aggressive concluding that your security features trump other issues. That’s all.


doesn’t really jive with what you said not that long ago

[quote=87056:@Brad Hutchings]But if you’re deploying or planning to deploy now, and need those features, kindof a showstopper. Talking to people, I think they’d be more than happy to do at least some things with XC if for no other reason to help a partner, if XC were a viable option. There seems to have been and continue to be a lot of focus on marginal security improvements and not much progress since beta on noted showstoppers.
No mention of “security being the issue” but missing features - which is a common complaint & we get its not got all the bells & whistles - really we do
Lets overlook the inconsistency between these two statements of your and say that the link Jason gave talk at about the same high level as the Digital Ocean one - there are all these things you need to do to be secure.
And there is http://xojo.com/cloud/index.php#secure
I don’t know (at midnight) off the top of my head if there is a document that talks about whats set up in more detail or not.
But I will say I could not find much on other VPS site about what their default images include when I did look.
I know whats set up but heck I work here - and I know how paranoid Greg & Travis have been (they have serious trust issues let me say) so the firewall & SElinux configs are very tight.
I’ll see if there is something more in the AM

Yes. :frowning:

For me, the problem is mainly that Xojo Inc. wasting time. The web framework evolves very slowly. Since the release of the web SDK (nice feature!) end of 2012 , very little is published , while there was a lot of waiting .

From experience, a development company is better if it focuses on its core business . I have also seen with 4D and even Filemaker have lost a lot of time on side projects that do not succeed.

[quote=87046:@Norman Palardy]Let me repeat again - this is VERSION 1.0 of our service
So yes there are things that are not there TODAY - but don’t imagine this means they will NEVER be there.
Well maybe never PHP as thats really kind of the antithesis of why you’re using Xojo :stuck_out_tongue:
You can see what is and what isn’t there, compare & decide for yourself what you must have and whether it works for you or not
It will for some, it won’t for others

But understand that our business proposition isn’t necessarily to be a VPS provider independently of the IDE
Maybe that happens but I doubt it as things really are customized for Xojo apps in many ways[/quote]

Norman, my point is not to tout cheaper solutions, nor is it to say Xojo Cloud is inadequate. On the contrary, I will be the first to wholeheartedly recommend it for the fantastic ease of use and peace of mind about security. And we all know rental price is mostly ancillary when the potential to loose countless hours in under the hood maintenance is high, which is the case for do-it-yourself.

I simply feel it is useful and fair that the community of developers be able to share here their experiences, good or bad, as well as pointers to available resources, would that be XC or otherwise. When software is concerned, choices are never either/or and cannot be reduced to XC or else. So discussing what is lacking in version 1.00 of Xojo Cloud is a good thing. It helps those who do not realize the amount of work involved not to jump into VPS to be warned about the need for technical competence, as was obvious in another recent thread. Those will greatly benefit from XC. Others more comfortable with hosts may rightfully desire features that are not yet available in XC and can benefit from other members insight. To sum it up, this forum is the best place to exchange about options, let us not be too dogmatic either way.

[quote=87046:@Norman Palardy]Well maybe never PHP as thats really kind of the antithesis of why you’re using Xojo :stuck_out_tongue:

Granted, it sounds counterproductive. Yet a recent discussion about reusing HTML image maps into WE made me realize that often, projects have an history and assets. We tend to consider development as from the ground up, when in real life reusing code and bits of programs is commonplace. I have had an online delivery system since 1998. Back then it was written in Perl and this worked fine for several years. Then came Paypal and I used PHP for the IPN listener, which manages sending mail to customers when transaction is complete. It works to complete satisfaction. Last year I wrote a brand new WE program to manage download for the customer and enjoy it very much. But I have no reason to dump the IPN listener I have. So my site uses PHP for the listener and Xojo WE for the user interface. No antithesis here. Practical complementarity :slight_smile:

[quote=87107:@Norman Palardy]doesn’t really jive with what you said not that long ago

OK, back up. So I thought Christian was on the receiving end of an undeserved ess-storm for mentioning that he had a Sparkle class (and not mentioning MBS by name). And I’m the bad guy for that. But then the OP above mentions connecting to an existing corporate database and the solution offered was (I’m paraphrasing) “security is the most important thing, use SQLite for now”.

[quote=87107:@Norman Palardy]But I will say I could not find much on other VPS site about what their default images include when I did look.

They typically include nothing or nothing set-up by default. We all get that. There was a contention that VPS vendors don’t even tell you what you need to do to secure your server. That Digital Ocean link was in the welcome email. And we get it, they don’t have two guys managing that security 24/7 at the expense of fixing WE issues that preclude using XC.

Oh, and how about the flurry of JavaScript exception issues? Something is as messed up as it’s ever been with manipulating controls, nobody can seem to find a reliable way to reproduce it and expose a specific underlying problem, and we’ve received zero guidance from Greg on how to deal with it.
OK, Xojo Cloud. Got it.

Why mix WE with PHP and Perl ? The thread at https://forum.xojo.com/11795-use-perl-class-in-xojo/0#p87426 gives some insight into the need for it.

Paypal gives example code in several languages including PHP and Perl, but not in Xojo (not surprising). Instead of painfully writing a C plugin, it is far easier to call a script with HTTPSocket.

I was able to place the Perl script in the same folder as the WE using build CopyFile. As for the PHP script, it was necessary to install it out of cgi-bin for it to work. I tested that on my 1701 VPS. Now Xojo may want to consider useful for Perl and Php scripts to execute in Xojo Cloud. After all, it does not seem more paradoxical than to use HTML Page Source…

Going back to the original question for this thread, I had nothing but trouble with a DreamHost VPS. In November 2012 I switched to a HardHat Hosting VPS and the only time it doesn’t work is when I forget to set the permissions.