the end of VB

Interesting article…

https://medium.com/young-coder/the-rise-and-fall-of-visual-basic-f422252349a6

HA !

[quote]
Classic VB programmers had to change the way they counted array elements. No longer could they start at 1, like ordinary people. Now they had to start at 0, like official programmers.
[/quote] :stuck_out_tongue:

An interesting opinion anyway, eh?

One thing is for sure, Microsoft is sure “…disrupting its own developer ecosystem by introducing a completely new way of doing things…” - AGAIN, with the advent of .NET Core.

Not only is VB .net being left out of .NET Core, but even some heavily past-promoted C# features of the original .NET Framework are not being migrated to .NET Core.

Microsoft can be so… ARGGG!

yeah MS cant make up its mind and never removes anything it seems
Thats why we have Win32, WinForms, WPF and whatever it is now … Universal or something ?

Does the paragraph “What Doomed Visual Basic” make sense to anyone???

Lucky for Xojo, I can’t imagine the impact of chasing MS as well as Apple at their deprecation rate.

True
Apple & MS seem to be polar opposites in this regard
One throws everything away no matter how new it is
The other never does even though they probably should
And linux tries to chase both, at the same time, mostly, … bah fork that !

Good question. I think this is where the author of this “opinion piece” gets a little ahead of himself.

I started with .NET back when it was just beta 2 (prior to version 1). And I distinctly remember the debates and criticisms from very early on that compiled C# *.dll’s and *.exe’s are not native binaries, whereas VB6 apps were.

The debates often centered around similarities of how the .NET Framework is not unlike the Java VM and what the advantages were supposed to be, or not.

Ever since, Java and .NET have been fighting for first place of a dubious future, where .NET is creating a technical nightmare and Java has a political mosh-pit.

I guess some people might call that kind of friction “respect”, but not me.

The fact that Xojo compiles to cross-platform native binaries will keep our favorite flavour of VB alive for quite a while, I think.

Sort of
With VB.Net MS put VB programmers on the same footing as C# programmers
Neither was “better” in that what you could do in VB.Net you could do in C# and vice versa
The things that VB programmers loved, C# now had too
And, in part, that got rid of VB’s appeal since it was “just another language” (and seemingly not one aimed at the folks who loved VB)

And then MS decided to NOT put all of the new things in .Net into VB.Net

MS has seemingly been trying to kill VB for more than a decade
And this last bit of not putting all the new stuff into VB.Net might just do it

[quote=442146:@Norman Palardy] With VB.Net MS put VB programmers on the same footing as C# programmers
Neither was “better” in that what you could do in VB.Net you could do in C# and vice versa
The things that VB programmers loved, C# now had too
And, in part, that got rid of VB’s appeal since it was “just another language” (and seemingly not one aimed at the folks who loved VB)[/quote]

So true.

I remember around .NET 2.0, they had VB .NET, C# and JScript .NET, with F# coming around the corner then I think too. Microsoft advertised all those choices as allowing developers to migrate to .NET while maintaining “your” coding life-style (or something to that affect).

JScript .NET didn’t last long, probably because C# was an improvement over Classic JScript.

I sometimes picture MS was scratching it’s head wondering why so many VB6 devs were still sitting on the fence waiting for things to improve… I know a few of these folks, who grudgingly submitted to the .NET way and not happily.

Well the author is stuck in his Microsoft centric world. When I started my development career in the late 80ies my first encounter with Microsoft was GWBasic. Horrible and I soon switched to Borland Turbo-Basic, later Power-Basic. It still lives today (somehow) and still is the “secret weapon” in your stack of development tools for Win32 and Windows Console Tools. But the focus is on Microsoft and Visual Basic.

The author is right on so many observations but fails in interpreting and mentioning others. For instance: He does not mention anything of multi-user and team development. Visual Basic (and in some ways Xojo too) lacks the ability for cooperative work on projects. To name it: No Integration of version control, nothing to control bigger projects and teams nor non-developing team members like UI-Designers, Art Directors or Translators etc. Visual Basic is developed with the “sole-developer-behind-one-machine” concept and was intentially left there because Microsoft feared it could threaten Enterprise Visual Studio 6.0/ 98 stack with Visual Source Safe, its own interpretation of SVN back in those days.

Like Windows itself Microsoft fundamentally thought everything around the client-sever concept, so typical for early and late 1990ies and it still lives till today when dealing with Windows Domains. But - and I would locate it somewhere in the mid/late 90ies. Microsoft finally discovered the internet.

It was clear, that modern software should not be bound to the restrictions of a local Client Server or Microsoft Domain Concept anymore. And so new ideas emerged. It was the time of the first thin-clients and the beginning of net computing. Java was born and Microsoft was bare-naked without anything in his portfolio for a net based, decentralized way of computing. Well there was something like Network OLE (Object Linking and Embedding) - it never worked well - and then there was DCOM, Distributed Component Object Model. This was the straight way to (DLL)hell. So overstretched, far too complicated and even within the MIcrosoft ecosystem of NT4 serves and clients not working. And as developer from those days I can tell you… it really sucked to work with proxies, stubs, mashalling variables back and forth, running into timing problems and dealing with un-registred DLLs on remote NT4 servers. Bah… The only one solution for this mess: An extra layer of abstraction between a developer and his developing machine and this is how the managed code and the .NET Framework was born.

And there we are. Stuck somewhere in between these concepts. Because Microsoft does not have the balls to drop the legacy of the early-mid 1990ies in its Operating Systems. Oh wait a second… there is the Cloud… uhhh…

All above is my story too. I missed BASICA, which was delivered with DOS 6.22 in the mid 80’s. Next to all this I did a lot of 6502/6809/Z80/8088 assembler for my industrial electronic projects. Because of the lack of good affordable tools for coding, simulating and compiling assembler I wrote my own tools in MS QuickBasic 4.0 and was successful with it. I could do things others didn’t even understand, but also realized that this was just being temporary “one eye king”.
Nowadays I am doing Xojo and I abhor the thought that I should return to VB6. It’s clear now that COM was/is a hell and VB6 lacked nearly everything I in fact cannot live without in modern developments.
For me it’s clear that VB .NET has been declared dead already, just not relevant anymore since the syntax standard turned into brackets. It is undeniably true Microsoft has a vision on their future. For example, they have taken over and killed Visual Foxpro with the plan to turn this community into the .NET mindset, if they liked it or not.
In my opinion Xojo deserves to be a popular as VB was, back in the early 90’s. Comparing Microsoft with Xojo, it’s clear that it’s not the technical approach making a product. It seems to be vision, marketing investments and low threshold making a product famous.

Since Windows 8, and the new API, Microsoft had lost it’s footing. I worked with .Net back in 2013 or so to create a handful of new API applications for the Windows Store. Instead of making it more powerful, Microsoft coerced apps into their new application model, and denied them easy access to the printer, as well as other oddities like no more quit command.

.Net has simply become irrelevant.

VB is still the scripting and automation language in (for example) Excel and many other applications.
Just this winter I had a project creating macros for SOLIDWORKS CAD and the scripting language is - guess what - VB. The API for SOLIDWORKS is expanded in every release and additional VB functions are added.

[quote=442160:@Michel Bujardet]
.Net has simply become irrelevant.[/quote]

.Net Core looks interesting as it could be a replacement for Xojo when creating cross platform command line tools.

It’s far from irrelevant near me (Cambridge, UK), a lot of the reasonably well paid jobs are C# related.

A quick look at the TIOBE index for June 19 shows that VB.NET is now the 5th most popular language
ahead of C# at no6 and growing in popularity.

What popularity means (in this context) ?

It means you have to know how to use it if you want to get a job in this industry (if you want or need to move from your current enterprise or get one if you are jobless).

Popularity have nothing to do with good or bad, etc.

In the cinema industry, (male) actors were women idols even if they do not love female(s)… (sex symbls they said then).

So, popularity only means that. People who do not know anything about our industry when writing a job request text will use as mandatory “fluent in VisualBasic” even if they do not know anything about VB…
Do you remember the famour job ad issued one year after Windows XP was released ? It said “with 5 years of Windows XP experience” ;).

Now for the “VB new Feature”:
When your IDE creator/vendor add a feature to its IDE, first get an eye on what other IDE provider [ANN] prior that; usually, then announced the same (and some others will announce later the same).
This is a marketing stuff related to competition, nothing to do with our ability to write faster our application(s) at all.

New features are added because of technology (Carbon to Cocoa or 64 bits vs 32 bits) or because the competitors provide this feature (so I have to give it to my users. This is called a “me too” in advertising corporation. In the car industry, they know and use that ‘ad nauseam’.

Of course, IMHO.

@Emile Schwarz

I only commented based on the title of the thread, the end of VB

@Microsoft: Better stick to VB…
https://github.com/dotnet/try/issues/290

try.dot.net Muhahaha!